Outlaw does not benefit from subterfuge outside of a single talent, so it would make more sense to take it out. Wouldn’t go so far as to remove the offensive potential from Vanish because it adds flexibility to all the specs.
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I figured out a way to use Subterfuge as Outlaw. After I break stealth, I keep using Ambush again and again for 6 seconds.
I do good damage, especially if I’m lucky. Subterfuge is useful, even for Outlaw. I need it for my strategy. Please do not nerf it because it took a lot of planning to figure it out.
Also, the damage depends on luck. So it’s balanced. Nerfing Subterfuge because of UI is not good.
There’s got to be something else that can be done. Or, just adjust your UI.
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- Cry about a talent that provides flexibility for all 3 specs because you dont like pressing the button
- Somehow be ok with Vanish taking over that buttons functionality despite Vanish already having its own uses and now being overloaded
The grey parser logic is incredible.
What flexibility?
I didn’t say that, but whatever makes you feel better.
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Whatever flexibility you feel Vanish adds. I understand youre slow, but offensively, Vanish is literally doing the same thing as Shadow Dance did with 2 charges.
No, Subterfuge is doing the same thing Shadow Dance did with two charges. You’d think an ‘expert’ would be able to differentiate between Vanish and Subterfuge.
But expectations are too high, apparently.
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this has got to be one of the most semicasual threads on this forum
grats OP. top kek.
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Here i thought knowing Vanish is the current mechanism to activate Subterfuge in combat was common knowledge. Sorry for the elitism.
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To force us to come and stay out of stealth longer. When subterfuge is active, you are forbidden from stealthing unless you blow vanish.
At the same time they added the second Vanish charge for everyone, they also Nerfed how long you stay in Vanish-level stealth even if you get hit, by half. It was 3 seconds now its 1.5, barely enough time to take a full step when you vanish.
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Then you would be wrong. Breaking stealth activates Subterfuge, which extends the use of stealth abilities after breaking said stealth, so it acts like a pseudo–Shadow Dance, not Vanish.
Subterfuge acts like Shadow Dance.
Vanish attempts to break combat and puts you into stealth, so when you break stealth it activates Subterfuge.
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Congratulations, you over explained something Xæthron implicitly alluded too.
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She’s still wrong. It’s not my fault she doesn’t understand the differences between Subterfuge, Shadow Dance, and Vanish.
My point was you could drop Subterfuge and Shadow Dance completely from Outlaw and it would more-or-less function the same way, sans a simple change to Crack(shot) without having to touch Vanish as an offensive CD.
But I guess we have to be extra, extra slow for at least two people when explaining things.
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Whatever you say.
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I too am a grey parser.
Actually pretty hard to do given the only people still playing the class went Sin or have a chip on their shoulder with something to prove.
Pray for the recovering Sub addicts who are bitterly clinging to their free cheaps and devaluing of base kits for degenerate cooldown skimping.
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Eh?
It gets ambush the whole time, which greatly increases combo point gen.
It gets that haste buff or whatever
And it gets crack shot
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Lmao.
Cant make this up.
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I really liked how Sin played with SD, it was fun.
And if we still had it the constant sourceless unstealthing wouldn’t hurt Deathstalker as much.
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Yeah, it was almost like I was mocking you. 
You’re not so bad, once you pull down your pretentious veneer.
your “issue” is easily solved by renaming vanish to something not strealth themed when rogues spec into outlaw. Literally just a rename. Problem solved. You and many people on here seem to have a bone to pick with ability names, like that time ambush turned into shadowstrike for sub, when essentially its still the same ability.
Vanish → Smokescreen
Subterfuge ->Combat Readiness/All hands on deck
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Basically a nerf but I think it will be reverted at some point.
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