CBA with sleepful season. I think I will just play towel boy spec in 2s and just set up for fire mage one shots; cop a free 2.1 illusion and log off. Game is looking 
af and id rather not play a boring feral druid dagger spec.
This depends on what comps we have to play, and we won’t really have a solid idea until the meta develops. Though I honestly think we’re going back to sin rogue.
I think it’s a difficult question to fully answer till we see how it plays out. but in my personal opinion they’re potentially DoA in rbg’s and likely dead in arena outside niche rogue/mage comps. .
RBG’s - one strength rogues brought in rbg’s was being the king of 1v1’s alongside sap capping. Which forced certain classes to defend bases (bears/vengencedh/other rogues/druids/etc.) things that can avoid rogues initial open or at least survive it, while still being able to at least delay sap caps. However with the essential removal of master assassin for sub pvp, we lose the option of all inning basically any hybrid on a base. All they need to do is survive the stun opener and pop a self heal, and sub rogue is usually low on tricks there while being really squishy. The time it would take us to kill the target is enough time for reinforcements. dramatically opening up potential base defenders and severely hindering our ability to back cap. Leaving us with purely trying to outplay their trinket to get a blind > cap. which won’t happen if they know the burst isn’t lethal anymore.
Arena - with rogue/mage it’ll still work well in arena I think. with the rogue being the stun/setup and mage being the actual kill threat (not unlike what it has been in the past. rogue being mostly control.) However I don’t think it’ll go as far as it does now, since you lose a lot of kill potential without being able to vanish and get 2-3 full cp eviscerates to autocrit. so you’re fully reliant on the mage in the duo. And with how squishy sub is, there isn’t much margin for error. Where assassination (usually necrolord) will be much beefier, isn’t reliant on their vanish, and has a few very high pressure leggo’s. But it’s more a 3’s rogue since It lacks the same degree of control sub offers in rogue/mage which is a core component of the comp.
TL;DR - I dont’ think it’s fully dead, but it’s dramatically weaker than it is currently. I’d almost prefer taking a weaker rbg back capping assassination rogue, that brings a 60% heal reduction for teamfights to pick off targets and still able to double back cap with druid easily. idk between sub or sin on flag carry maps though. between multi locking healers around the carrier, or just reducing the heal intake dramatically. hard to call.
i’m pretty damn sure we go back to sin rogue for arena’s 100%. don’t think that’s really debatable most the time rn. at least in a 3’s comp that uses sin (they kind of want a healer, so idk about rogue/mage entirely. we’ll see. . . though i still think even that sin is likely better)
BlizZard saw this which is why Sub is going to have access to a 2 min smoke bomb.
that won’t save them. . . they designed themselves into a hole. with sub being so reliant on it’s opening burst due to being hyper squishy, it wont take much outside that. and since It runs out of juice pretty early in a burst window, if they survive that it’s pretty weak for a bit. MA was a solution to this, and they made it non-viable. which causes a problem with subs ability. It’s still a control god, but it’s dmg . . . isn’t nearly as threatening.
That is true that BlizZard has made Sub very limited. We shall see how it all unfolds!
overall i think MA was bad for the game and did need nerfed. but they needed something of good value to compensate sub rogues for it’s removal, pvp wise. same with stealth shield. . they were too strong and didn’t leave much counterplay. That said, without them what dmg does sub rogue have?
sub will be dodo and asa has one shadowstep. only way to play rogue is getting poverty rbg gear from staring at a flag then punching down 30 ilv
Are u basing on changes that are upcoming or current?
Upcoming.
It’s all on ravenholdt
Love seeing different takes on this… we will find out soon enough. I’ll keep messing around with kyrian to see how it does in arena and RBG once season 2 kicks off. For now I just feel I have better windows of burst in a shorter time pumping out bigger damage than the longer windows with venthyr. Both are fast windows, but resounding clarity takes out the need for spending to much time with combo point generation. This is what I like. when I create MY windows of burst I intent to pump 20-30k damage of my damage (not including team) in the shortest time possible, which is meant for kill. Venthyr is great and no doubt pumps more damage but it feel it takes a little longer than I want (few seconds, which is make or break a lot of times). Don’t get me wrong I love venthyr too.
Keep in mind I’m not just looking at the lego alone but the synergy with other soulbinds and conduits with resounding clarity. Mastery buffs are huge in a short time. I’m also looking at Kyrian holistically for predictability (despite the rng of 3rd finisher with the lego) of control both in rbgs and arena. Most rogues want to pump dmg, and I get that bcs it’s fun to look at charts to prove we are dangerous, but from a team approach I get more enjoyment from showing my ability to control 2-3 enemy players and still kill them, cap their flag, return a flag, or prevent enemy flag caps. and bring more to the table than just damage pressure, bcs we all know with good enemy healer that also has great cleanse and cc capability is a threat to sin rogues more than sub.
I understand if a sin/sub 2400+ rogue disputes what I’m saying, but you are the exception as your rating shows your mastery of the specc and team strategy. I’m not a consistent multiglad, but I do want to continue improving my capability.
You should probably check achievements.
I also admit I’m a washed up duelist most because of lack of people to play with.
I will retract my statement as Kyrian is coming out on top on the newest sims.
feels like the meta is always “anything but rogue”
More like take a WW monk over Rogue.
we had a 5sec ma for all of legion.
Not in a pvp instance
Spec feels like complete 
now. I love being nothing more than a cc bot. I just don’t understand how blizzard nerfs MA before things like warrior intervene lol.
Assassination is a very good PVP spec in patch 9.1.
If I wanted to play around with bleeds I’d play feral druid. It’s passively tankier and it has better pressure.
Feel Sub will be decent and fun. Dismantle feels great to have back on melee cds especially after rogue stunlock to peel the counter pressure and I feel tricks of the trade being borderline op for RMP/Thug again. Also, I do like the fact the coldblood was removed completely for use of some interesting pvp talents per game including tricks, sprint removing roots, distract trolling and even death from above against porting classes like locks. Sure it hurt our burst, but lets face it - it’s nice to have options again on rogue per match.
I was contemplating kyrian for a bit, but honestly Venthyr Obedience/Theotar seems too good to miss out on. Having a cd reduction on the hardest hitting ability we have lining up perfectly for a one dance build with the improved smokebomb (2min) seems great.
I’m not really a fan of thieves bargain due to losing 10% damage on our burst windows IE vanish/shadowblades but I imagine it could see play against teams that tunnel rogues for spamming feint every 10 seconds. I’m curious to see if Battlemaster is dropped again with the nerf for a crit on use trinket (again, lining up perfectly with the one dance build and actually needing crit with no master assasin in the future).