Personally it’s not the simmable ones I consider problematic. Balance will likely be close enough in most cases.
It’s the niche weird things like damage reduction shields, self dispels and teleports that are massively important in some areas of content for some specs and completely useless in others.
Why is it wrong to want to dabble with different things instead of making a bad decision and then sticking with it for the entire expansion?
I see no virtue in staying the course when you know you’re wrong.
Forcing players into making irrecoverable mistakes is actually bad for business, since a lot of people are not going to be willing to start again after something was nerfed or completely changed.
Not if you can just change it whenever you want. It’s not a meaningful decision when every decision you make is always the right one.
Buy tome change to better talent has no drawbacks except maybe 1g so people aren’t locked into their choice.
Personally though I agree that players shouldn’t really feel pigeon holed into one ability that doesn’t work for each of the aspects/roles that they play. Especially when the cost for change is will be arduous as they have been making it out to be.
In my opinion the choice should purely be thematic but final, instead the 4 abilities that are currently now split over the covenants should simply all just be available to each covenant but appropriately themed with spell effects and damage type etc.
That way you lock yourself into a covenant along with it’s cosmetics and it’s spell animations, but also have access to each of the varied abilities so that you can have a bit more freedom to pick what is appropriate.
Currently now I’m concerned it will be like artifact pigeon holing of Legion which prevented players from playing multiple specs.
It’s not meaningful at all if every choice you can make is in some ways wrong.
Do you think arranged marriages for life are more meaningful than marriages between individuals who made the decision between the two of them?
4 abilities you pick from in some sort of ui, 4 spell effects for each based on covenant. Hell if you read them some are even passive / likely have very low visuals already and would just need an icon change or colour tint.
Very much in favour of this. Meaningful thematic choice with consequence, that doesn’t pigeonhole you into a spec or type of content.
I guess we will just have to disagree on the first part - people still have to think about the choice they make. If they choose on a whim, they could choose the wrong one for the content and lose out on a huge benefit. If they’re thoughtful and strategic about their choice - they’ll come out ahead. That makes sense in my mind.
agreed on the choice being thematic.
For what it’s worth on the Legion artifacts - players didn’t have to relevel their artifact weapon each time they changed specs. I think that’s all players are asking for - let us work through the content for each covenant, and let us go back to where we left off when we change specs/roles/content/etc.
I don’t understand how you don’t see the similarities between this system and the other borrowed power systems that people hate.
Do you have any clue what borrowed power is? Those are Soulbinds, Artifacts, etc., not abilities.
Why have choices if they don’t matter? Choices to have weight and consequence to matter. Honestly, I think this is a great move for the game.
I believe it’s wrong to think of this choice like a talent or an essence. It’s more akin to a subclass.
And from the non-player perspective… this is going to be a nightmare for Blizzard to balance. How much time will be wasted bumping abilities up and down over and over all expansion instead of focusing on the classes themselves or other kinds of content?
I mean dabbling before making an educated choice is a different matter. If gameplay alllows you to experience the choices that you can make before forcing you to make your decision that would be good game design.
It depends what you mean by “wrong” there is no “wrong” answer to which covenant you want to pick. Merely best cosmetically, best thematically, and best numerically.
Blizzard has said you can change just that it will be a significant burden to do so, so it’s not really irrecoverable at all, unlike say AP in Legion which was irrecoverable.
Sure it is, welcome to life. There is a cost to everything you do, every second you spend doing one thing is a second you could have spent doing something else.
There is a cost to choicing a specific class in WoW, is that not meaningful because every choice in some ways is wrong?
The fact that you prioritize something over something else makes it meaningful, sure you could go for the better numbers, but maybe a different covenant has a better ability for PvP or maybe simply better cosmetics.
You weigh up the benefits and the cons of each choice and make a decision based on it.
Not sure exactly how that is related, also wouldn’t it be the other way around?
Non-arranged marriages would be a more meaningful decision because you made the choice to marry someone despite their flaws and despite anothers boons.
No one is perfect so there is always a cost in marriage, even if the cost is simply monogamy not personal traits of the person.
In fact that is what makes marriage important to people instead of just staying in a relationship.
Also side note, but apparently arranged marriages are actually more successful and more happy in their marriage than most nom-arranged marriages. So maybe Blizzard should just randomly assign characters to a covenant instead of letting us pick at all lol.
But the choice will matter drastically based on the role, content, match-up, etc. that the player is up against.
Having the choice elicits working with your team, being thoughtful about what you’re doing and what role you’re playing.
Being pigeoned into one ability is mostly punishing for players that want to play in various types of content and roles.
Yep, obviously the unique utility spell for each covenant would be unique still but just the class spells. Would be the smart way to go in my opinion.
I think it makes the choice meaningful but not punishing.
Is there a link to the Covenant abiliities?
The only way covenants don’t blow up in Blizzards face is if they actually balance them.
No duds like Azerite powers have.
Since they want them to be a decision that is hard to change, they have to all be useful.
No traps like the azerite powers which are worth 5% of the power the top choices give.
No more than your class choice does. I believe it’s maybe being overlooked just how complex the system is going to be. It’ll be more akin to a sub class than a talent row.
Thank you, happy cow-man!
They are up on MMO-C. I can’t post links because I recommended people be put into space via giant cannon.
It’s 4 abilities / passives per class and a utility spell. Talent rows are currently 3 per spec. Doesn’t sound much more complex at all.