Stop Time Gating LFR

Community General Discussion
447

great question. let’s go for a short answer.

reason #1: LFR is a form of raiding, and raiding involves progression, advancing from one boss to the next, learning the more complex fights, and so on. Since LFR does not support progression, it can’t hit the same time curve without scattered releases.

reason #2: Not to overwhelm players. since LFR lacks leadership, learning 2-3 bosses is easier than 9+. That provides a better overall experience to everyone in the raid.

reason #3: Not to make larger portions of the tier forgettable. With 9 bosses and no progression, often one-shot, it’s easy to find yourself 3 months into the tier and go “I did this boss 5 times, don’t remember anything about it”.

reason #4: content pacing. If you get your PvE done Tuesday night for the 6 months of a season… that would hurt subscription numbers for the 5 months following the current one. In a massively-multiplayer game, large population drops hurt the social structure. Crafters, for example, would be indirectly affected by you getting all your gear enchanted first 3 days of a half-year patch.

There are other reasons but i think this is a good start to give you an idea why you’re incorrect to ask for a sudden release of content of such low difficulty at once.

Glad I could help.
~Robo

448

No one has actually presented facts

I never called you a liar. Just clueless.

449

The problem is that the current version of LFR would need a decent level rework to be actually useful for any of those goals.

The mechanics don’t do enough to punish failure for people to actually learn from them, guild’s can’t queue and carry/recruit since the max party queue size is 5, LFR suffers from the same drop rates as all other raid difficulties, so it’s terrible catchup gear/BLP.

Re-working LFR into any one thing would not be a bad idea, but right now it tries to do enough different things that it completely fails at doing any of them. It’s closest to succeeding as a tourist mode.

450

I do raids for the challenge and gear progression and learning the fights.

However LFR complexity stops well before the ilvl of normal and also the challenge and complexity of normal.

I would still rather do normal, herioc, and even mythic for the challenge. And to help my team and even random players. LFR never stopped me from doing any of that.

What LFR does do is let me play somewhat interesting group content on a day I feel sick when I can’t commit to a raiding team anyway.

It takes absolutely nothing from that raid team. And when I potentially feel better I will have 411 gear. And tier so maybe I can help a guild late season get the last boss on normal.

You have to absolutely expand your mind and scope beyond your niche, circumstances, and preferred play style and perhaps you’ll see how important LFR is to the game as a whole and others.

Now you can say im too stupid or too weak or too socially inept and a trash player to invalidate my position. And you’re within your rights to do so.

However, I truly hope people learn from what I have shared today in this thread. Yeah I got AoTC Queen Ashzarra. Yet LFR is all I can do most of the time. Would you really want to drive away all the people similar to me that play wow just because lfr stinky.

I garantee you have raided and pugged and done mythics or bgs or Arenas with people in my boat. Or similar situations. Just because you don’t become fast IRL friends in the same guild for years doesn’t mean you haven’t benefited from LFR even if you never do it. It brings good people to the game. Good people that benefit the game.

I shouldn’t have to justify myself or LFRs existence.

It absolutely takes away nothing. Its virtually no effort to release LFR along with other more tuned and tested content. And brings a lot of good people to the game that would otherwise just have to quit and essentially be even that more likely to walk away forever, at least from raiders.

I told the thread I was a healer main. I spent a lot of time healing in LFR to get a handle on the damage profiles of bosses in BFA and it absolutely helped my guild and all those other players using LFR at the time for various reasons.

I disagree with you. You are being far to critical of a game mode that is actually beneficial despite your belief. Now to be absolutely clear. I do not think they should ever scale lfr difficulty or rewards upto normal, herioc, or mythic. LFR should always reward gear good for starting normals. And getting all 411s by week three of a patch by no means hijacks the progression of normals. People on weak one where already far ahead of 411 ilvl.

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451

I did i talked directly about my experience in SL and BFA. You are choosing not to believe me lol.

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452

How does that help with having difficulties with raiding commitments?

453

no, I want to see LFR developed further than it was 12 years ago.

current LFR was fine for first launch. it’s obvious that it’s obsolete for its 15th tier or however many it is. They made M+ be a serious form of content, while difficulties like M+2-m+5 are accessible to all. Yet they left LFR where it first landed in DragonSoul, only changed loot rules a bit.

We still don’t have a leadership structure. We still don’t have a reason to try. Determniation beats the boss for us if we don’t try. might as well youtube while the fight is going on.

make LFR feel like a raid. Or get rid of it if you can’t.

454

For that to happen, they need to pick an identity for LFR to have. Currently it tries to do half a dozen different things, and as a result does a terrible job of all of them.

2 Likes
455

they still havent decided if it’s entry to raiding or para-raiding.

456

You can learn from the mechanics. I learned the basics of Razageth in a few pulls on lfr. Same with Kazzara. I wiped the first time on that. Today I got through all 6 lfr bosses without dying and had the opportunity to do soaks and add priority on the new bosses. And i learned volcano positioning on the one boss with the energy meters and whole center of the room thing going on. Im already at a great advantage going into normal being familiar with the rooms.

The people who want to learn are going to learn. They don’t need to lay dead in a corner offscreen where they cannot spectate the rest of the raid and follow others movements at least.

Now I totally agree with you about the max queue size being 5. They really do need to let guilds run inside of LFR. That said individual officers would run lfr with people in one of my old guilds and you can still see who’s doing well or even just good at communicating and recruit them on a 1 on 1 basis if you happen to do lfr for any reason.

It could be improved and i have written many long posts on such improvements. My goal here is simply to illustrate that LFR isn’t a loss to the game. The people who play in LFR are often good people. And it’s good the game has them. Lfr is good for the game. It could use some improvements. And releasing all lfr wings with the rest seems like a reasonable request.

See the above narrative about how LFR made several important mechanics clear to me. Let me build some muscle memory. Not only that. It did so in game without external references. Therefore not breaking immersion and keeping me logged in instead of just watching 30 minutes of YouTube and laying down after lol.

457

so you support removing determination then?

458

That is but one anecdote, to which I’ll counter with the few times I’ve had trouble convincing the group to kick people who queued up, put me on /follow, then went AFK and did nothing. They still got their boss kill.

459

Except it doesn’t. They could absolutely use the premade finder to pug normal and in most cases just having comms and a RL will make it a ton easier and faster to clear every week, even on a higher difficulty.

460

Actually. Yeah. I really do see what you are getting at. I’m not die hard in the removal camp. I understand your reasoning though and wouldn’t resist it much. Especially if they improved the que size for lfr.

Yes and no.

I have yet to be invited to normal for only the one boss. Most people want to do a full clear or at least push until the raid falls apart.

I have zero IO and don’t have four hours to haggle ppl into a raid group.

During actual progression in challenging content where players are pushing content a boss can take many pulls. It can take 3 hours to do just to bosses (im looking at you halondrus).

In lfr I can spend about an hour and get a minor amount of progression and see the core mechanics of generally three bosses. Though I would prefer LFR was just one boss at a time.

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461

Your experience is anecdotal. I never said it didn’t happen. I just said you don’t know what you’re talking about.

462

Well, that assumes all the mechanics are in LFR to begin with. Anduin down phase or the actual mob named desolate host on the desolate host encounter are 2 prime examples to the contrary.

463

It’s not. Other people in this thread agree with me. Look at the number of hearts the OP has alone…

I would kindly suggest that you are the minority opinion here. Not to invalidate you. Just, maybe don’t hate people who enjoy LFR being an option so much?

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464

Yeah lol. Absolutely.

Anyway im getting super tired best for me to stop posting.

Thanks for engaging with my posts.

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465

That literally means nothing.

If 100 people tell me 2+2=5 that doesn’t make it true. The forums make up an extreme minority of the player base. On top of that people who are unhappy are more likely to come and complain.

The difference is I’m one of the few players that actually play at a respectable level. Credibility matters.

And even though I keep repeating this.

I don’t care if people enjoy LFR. I’m not advocating for it to be removed. I’m giving my opinion against LFR catering to the entitled even more than it already does.

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466

Imagine though, if there was no LFR, or if all the people who say time is their biggest issue against guild raiding, and all those folks were in LFG instead. Tons of groups and people to choose from, plus you could get rolling with 10.

I’ve joined learning groups for normal raid that could get through 5-6 bosses faster than LFR just because people are actually giving and following directions.

  • I’m not calling for an end to LFR, just saying if time is the issue, it can easily take longer to get through LFR than a normal pug.
1 Like