Damn, you must be a blast at parties.
Did you forget about VDH in season 1 Shadowlands? They were even more represented than Prot warriors are now. Did you cry this much than?
BFA was the last time Warrior tanks were really good.
This is very true.
I mean, there are Paladins doing just that. There are also Brewmasters, DKs and VDHs doing it. The only one I haven’t seen a lot of are Druids. They are a special case where the tree is just a giant mess with 4 specs to put on the class tree.
I think every tank was crying that patch :^) even VDHs. Everything hurt!
To a point, I suppose. If you go back and look at the Season 1 reports on Raider IO you will see VDH were even further than what Prot war currently is. VDH didn’t get any massive nerfs, other tanks just got more power from added sources.
[~//raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-sl-1/all/world/leaderboards#role=tank:mode=unique:minMythicLevel=20:maxMythicLevel=99]
Yea you won’t see me disagreeing. I think context is key there though. That was a horrible time for any tank with VDH just having an advantage cause the only build anyone would play was frontloaded and cause they were good at running away.
The current meta has all tanks viable with no tank really suffering from massive drawbacks trying to counter content having kits that can provide some reasonable counter when used right even if sometimes timing said things takes skill. However, there’s one tank that just has everything with no real drawbacks. It’s not an apples to apples comparison comparing this current meta to the VDH meta or even the BDK meta that preceded it (although it might be more comparable to the latter than the former).
Personally my only gripe is with the way threat gets ripped from me playing with a warrior. It’s absolutely ridiculous to tell someone “do a little less dps” just so we don’t have threat issues and stacks going on the wrong person. But it’s even more ridiculous to have said person say “don’t worry, it’s ok I can take way more stacks than this” and actually have that be true. That’s just my personal gripe but you hear further eyebrow raising stories of prot warriors never actually having to leave battle stance other than for select tank buster mechanics as well as see a big disparity in tank damage across pull types. That would be the point where I think some tuning might be in order. It’s not wrong for any class’s spec to be the top spec. But you’d want that to be so as a result of some degree of applied effort rather than just having the answers readily available and/or present baseline.
Maybe Blizzard makes changes (and please don’t gut this warrior build, it is actually fun!) and actually tunes things to properly adjust for these kinds of things. I doubt it though. It’s not in their interest to because the portion of the player base that would actually want difficulty of balancing and managing mitigation, threat, damage, and healing on a tank is probably very small. It’s just much more fun for a far larger group of players to have something that has self evident answers for all the above and even for the toughest content pushers, it’s far easier to put the mind on other things to track if these aforementioned things don’t need to be tracked. So yea, I wouldn’t hold my breath for any actual changes.
I would add a last bit…that this sort of thing isn’t very good for a class in the long run. As variety gets added, you can’t give a class new things if the things they have are baseline this good so classes become stagnant. One look at holy paladin would demonstrate that. Where it’s viable sure, but the 3 spells that make it strongest have been staples forever and are extremely dull but also so staple that no real new styles of play that have any impact can be added on leaving the kit as a whole, lacking. It’s a trap no class should fall into but it happens.
I’ve seen some very impressive Prot paladins, maybe check to see what they’re doing? I’m running 20 and above now, and played with a variety of tanks. Can’t say I’ve ever seen an agro problem, even when I’m bursting for 400k.
I understand people wanting to be quickly picked up for pugs, and I’ll let ya in on a little secret. Even at 2600 IO, I don’t get instant invites to tank or dps. If Prot warrior gets gutted, it’s not going to help any individual to get instant invites.
I didnt play SL season 1 lol why would i play that garbage xpac. And im tired of warriors using the excuse “we’ve always been terrible let is have our time to shine” one spec having their time to shine isn’t worth every other spec being so much weaker that it isn’t even a competition. Also this has nothing to do with me having to improve im fine with how i’m doing this has to do with one tank being so dominant compared to the others that its not even close.
It barely looks like you play this expansion. Your excuses aside, I’m not really worried about the time to shine argument, I just don’t think gutting one class is going to fix the problems of the others.
I’ve played almost every day since release lol trust me im not making excuses. And again its not about improving the other classes its about having class balance
How does gutting a tank into F tier promote balance? While Prot maybe strong, and feel like the complete package, you’d rather just destroy it’s synergy because you want instant invites? Cause you think you’ll be the next big thing? That’s not how it works.
Once again i never said anything about wanting instant invites I’ve only done one +20 and thats because a friend dragged me into it. And once again I never said anything about putting it in the trash I said bring it in line stop putting words in my mouth.
You’ve only done one 20 key?
Wha, wait, what level keys are you complaining about than? Cause absolutely every tank can do 20s without issues. For example, timed a 20 RLP with a brew master tank today. He made it look stupid easy.
Again im not complaining about keys (even though m+ This season has its problems) im complaining about the class balance
It would be nice to see what kind of content you’re doing, so I can get a better picture of what you’re basing this opinion on.
Yeah, warriors tanks are strong, sure they’re super popular right now because of that. Same thing happened in Season 1 Shadowlands with VDH, hence my comparison. My point is, they did eventually prop up other tanks. Druid for the most part became super strong in Season 2. DK took over later on. Meanwhile, Prot warrior was F tier from start to finish.
So I’ll ask again, what do you really want to see with this class balance? I’m all for balance, but I’m not about seeing a class get gutted simply because.
I would disagree. I see mor e blood dks, druid, vdh and prot pally tanks than i ever do prot war with my dps alts. Even raider io shows a healthy amount of tank variety. Not sure where youre getting your info from
I want them to just balance the classes now instead of doing tiny gradual nerfs over time thats why i said just nuke it
LOL blizzard doesnt know what balance is
Oh my specific issue is more a raid one than dungeon one. If you can’t hold threat in a dungeon you’re doing it wrong. On any tank. Specifically on Terros in the middle of the fight. On the second beam I was supposed to soak I didn’t even notice it but threat slipped right back to the warrior tank I was with. This was while I was doing my full damage rotation and while wings was up in a full dps oriented build (dropping as many droppable tanking cds as possible in favor of even incremental damage increases). I fixed the issue at the time telling him I would adjust by just spamming taunt 3 times during that same window the next attempt. But if there’s a baseline threat issue of that nature against one target that neither of us has forced any downtime on in terms of pushing out our full and highest dps rotation on…yea that feels like a problem to me.
Also that’s hardly a secret 
trying to pug is awful in general but at that level I’d at least want to be doing the content with people I trust to deliver so it would be expected to be slim pickings in terms of a quick queue. It’s why it’s just better to either join a push group or make one if key number or score is the goal. Too many people dislike organizing like that though these days I’ve found. At least among the people I know 
Which I get. People get limited time to play and don’t want to do that extra stuff when they could just play, enjoy the instanced time they get to play, then get back to their lives.
If prot warrior was gutted (and I keep saying I don’t want it to be) then people would just shift to the next best option to counter the content they play. That’s just how meta thinking works.
For me I’d want to see some sort of damage tuning. They can stay the top damage dealing tank but maybe not have the degree of variance there is right now?
I’d also like to see some nerfs to ignore pain. It’s a bit ridiculous to have a full 50% DR with the only cd on it being the resource you have to maintain by using rotational spells you’d use anyway. It would be ridiculous even if it was baseline 30% but acceptable.
Don’t see either of these changes as gutting the spec and both would actually keep warrior as the go to spec for tanking. Most paladins at least would have more desire for this kind of balance than for gutting as they’ve experienced gutting firsthand when it comes to their healer dps/mana benefits. Alternately they could buff all other tanks damage and change their AM DR spells to do similar flat DR for similar resource costs but…that would be really boring.
Thats the first thing I agree with lol.
Uh, no.
Raider io shows that Warrior is by far the most represented tank at all levels of Mythic+ and at +20 they have more than twice the representation than the next tank.
And at +25 they have 60% representation.