Stop asking for the Alliance to take dark turns or be the bad guys

Two ex-Warchiefs where one is now basically a Loa now and the other is a hermit that doesn’t want anything to do with leadership anymore. Yay I guess… Saurfang could be better but it’s looking like he’s getting more and more at the end of his rope. Rokhan’s awesome though. They need to develop him more.

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To be fair, I like Thrall. I even liked him in Cataclysm. I still do his quest chain starting from Mount Hyjal on every alt I level (even if I have to pretend that it ends with Nordrassil getting healed instead it the chain ending with Thrall’s wedding).

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Then he’s cursed to never die until he does. Ooooohhhh.

I’d be on board with this route. A good scene that ensures Sylvie gets some punishment; doesn’t give Saurfang a quick out for his mistakes; and portrays Tyrande in a reasonable light (not forgiving in the slightest … but in that sort of nice middle range of … “You may NEVER earn forgiveness, but I expect you to try. An easy death would be an escape from that.”)

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Eh something about bringing back characters at the convenient time rubs me the wrong way. Its like oh crap breaks glass, phew were good for a little now.

That’s fair, but still doesn’t seem like the Horde is short characters to me.

To be fair, this is why I’ve never really made a big deal about the Night Elves not being immortal any more.

“Now we might die some day!”
“How many thousand of years will that take?”
“… Shrug?

Sauerfang wants to die a warriors death. It’s what he wants.

Night Elves are used to living forever/a long time. Orcs aren’t. I don’t think it will be very good for his mental health in the very long run. I wonder how many times he’d try to kill himself? If the movie “Ground Hogs” day is any judge…probably a lot.

If there’s one good thing that has come out of all the Saurfang cinematics it’s been him working through is fixation with his own death. He can do a lot more good as long as he’s alive, and I hope he’s realizing that now.

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Thats somethin will have to wait to find out until after bfa. If any of them really stick around. I could easily see at least 3 of those leaving after this bfas story is resolved.

Also I guess i more so was referring to dynamic characters. Not just any character.

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Well I personally hope not. I like Thrall, Vol’jin, and Saurfang.

Eh… if you mean Sylvanas (and maybe you don’t, I’m not sure), at this point she’s been written about as dynamic as a lead balloon. She’s just become standard evil, and it’s gotten pretty boring by this point.

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And that is what the Night Elves need. A real fist pump moment where they can feel proud, so that they can start crawling out of the hole this story has put them in.

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I’d love to get more intense than we’ve been in BFA, but not because some red poster is upset. It’s because the Horde kicked off the expac with literal genocide and nobody seems to be reacting appropriately.

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There is truly a bitter irony that the greatest canon thing Saurfang has ever accomplished was off the battlefield. His counseling of Orc Veterans of the 3rd War (of the enemy side), helping them come to terms with the atrocities they committed while hopped up on Fel Blood, saved countless lives from suicide. I wonder if he ever realized that, being as fixated as he was in trying to follow in his Brother and Son’s footsteps?

Bluntly, so far, the messaging of Saurfang’s three very expensive cinematics are: “Live Another Day”; “I can’t clean up your mistakes alone”; and “We don’t get to hide”. Saurfang may still earn his honorable death … but not in battle; but one at the end of a life devoted to service and penance.

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We’re probably not at the exact moment, though it’s easy to think of many of our characters as having one foot in the grave already (Sylvanas, Nathanos, Saurfang) and we don’t really know to what extent Vol’jin and Thrall are going to stick around, so I think ‘please no kill Horde character’ is a valid perspective.

Basically, we’re all a little nervous because, even though the Nightborne and Zandalari and potentially the Gilblins / Vulpera (hopefully both) are a big shot in the arm, there has been a marked tendency to take Horde characters off the field for little reason in the past. My favorite example is Ariok, personally; MU orcs are already starved for characters, and then they went and killed that cool one they could have brought back for like, no reason at all.

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Ariok? Ariok is alive. He was chilling out at my Garrison before I let him retire so I could activate another Night Elf.

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Oh, wow! I never actually played the Hellfire patch, so I didn’t know about that. That actually made my day.

Well, no it didn’t, but it is going to improve my mood for the next seven or eight minutes.

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His wow wiki page does refer to not knowing if his rescue by the player is canon, because he hasent been seen since.

Guess it would be fairly easy to write him back in though.

I do generally think there is some validity in this concern. Bluntly, the Orcs of Durotar are in real trouble. I don’t feel like I’m being hyperbolic when I state that one of their most developed remaining characters is friggen Cromush atm. With Thrall’s future inclusion entirely at the whims of Metzen’s willingness to VA him; and Saurfang’s insane level of Doomhammer parallels in BfA … there isn’t much blood left to drain from those Fel Tainted veins.

The Forsaken are in deeper trouble, with BOTH Sylvie and Nathanos on the chopping block (unless something happens quick here to finally knock Nate out of her cult enough to give him an avenue towards salvation). Voss is the next runner up for developed characters for them, and she’s spent so long NOT being Forsaken she’s far from ready to take over their leadership atm. Lets not even talk about HOW Tauren reps are used; or the status of the Darkspear…

Hell, its pretty much ONLY Elves that are in OK shape for representation atm…

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I like it too.
As long as both Saurfang and Sylvanas are humiliated then it is a good cinematic.
But I swear if Tyrande touches Saurfang’s manly bicep and smiles I will… I WILL BURN DOWN THE BANANA STAND.

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Cromush isn’t even an “Orc of Durotar”, he’s an MU Mag’har.

Anyway, as to the OP, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with a faction or parts of a faction taking “dark turns”. The issues there are really only when such turns are lacking in justification or nonsensical in the plot, and it’s the Alliance’s portrayal of absurd pearly-white righteousness which has caused that problem with the Horde in the first place, and also when the faction turns on itself.

The first problem would at least start to be solved if the factions reached some kind of moral equivalence where they could both feel truly justified in fighting each other. The second should be an easily avoidable issue, because it’s completely unnecessary from the start to make characters within a faction, acting against the opposite one, enemies to both.

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