Shaman could “sorta” tank if everything was trivial, and the shaman vastly over geared it…15 years ago. Won’t be enough to give shaman a brand new spec that has never existed.
I feel like all 4 elements are solidly associated with the 3 current specs.
Sure. You just have to have a really good reason to get them to do something that they have never done before and have always done completely different.
Based on what? New tank classes dont increase the tank playerbase.
That doesn’t mean they would play a spec that would play completely different than all the other specs.
That would also be a toooon more work than a new class/race.
That’s my point. No one would say there is an earth spec. But people will certainly say there is a water spec (resto) and depending on the player/talents/perspective, they would also say there is a fire and/or air/storm spec (ele and enhance).
And our lore is about balancing the elements.
I know it’s work. I’m just saying that given the class lore, having a tank (earth based) spec is such a no-brainer.
And selfishly, I want a tank spec so I can play tank form time to time =)
Because the people asking for tank specs, aren’t asking to tank on a new class. They don’t want to learn an entirely new class…They want to tank on the class with the asethetics that they like.
You add a Warlock/Hunter/Shaman tank spec, and you will see more of them tanking in queues.
Source is these specs have been asking for tank specs for over a decade — Monks and DH were added and did little to add tanks to the queue — and these specs are STILL asking for tank specs.
Shamans are elementalists, no single spec revolves around only 1 element which is the only reason im against the earth shaman spec idea.
Not to say i dont want more earth elemental stuff since its kind of underrepresented, id love to see proper earth shields (not the weak as healing shield) and some decent earth based abilities for ele and enhance like boulderfist coming back in some way (make it an optional branch with a few supporting talents)
My idea of how to implement an earth based tanking spec would require an entire system rework though so i wont even bother touching on that, but i do see some problems with it.
So you don’t think Resto revolves around mostly water? Or that Ele and Enh don’t mostly revolve around fire and air/storm?
I mean you basically create a passive called “Earth Infusion” which boosts armor, reduced damage taken and increase stamina. It’s just like every tank class. Thick Skin / Demonic Wards (DH) or Brewmaster’s Balance (Monk) or Bear Form (Druid) or Vanguard (Warrior) etc.
A lot of the rotation can be borrowed from Enhance (Flame Shock + Lava Lash). Keep Earthquake as our AoE like DnD (DK) or Consecration (Pally). Keep Earth Shield and Earth Ele (Adds a large DR component when up). Keep HST. Keep Astral Shift. Keep Earthen Wall Totem. Etc.
Add an elemental shield (magic damage cd). Add a raid wide healing cd like water elemental or something.
I disagree — all the class basics would have to be there. Frost Shock, Flame Shock, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Shield are all core to the shaman class.
Looking at the shaman class tree, you can easily build a tank spec around the maelstrom weapons mechanic as well. You don’t have to dual-wield, but you can still make use of the mechanic.
Rockbiter can return as a threat mechanic. Unleash elements can also return and double as a taunt.
Purge and Wind Shear are still there. Earth Shield still there. Utility totems still there.
So now all you need from the class tree is a true tanking mechanic (Literally just copy All-Totem of the Master), some form of cleave/AoE, defensive stats talents, and defensive cooldowns.
If you copy All-Totem, you can add passives like Strength of Earth and Grace of Air to callback old buffs — and have them give you parry and dodge % to feed into the tank mechanic.
If they wanted to get real familiar with it, they could even have the spec work like Legion/BFA enhance (since thats no longer a thing) in the sense of — Rockbiter builds Maelstrom, and then you have some type of defensive ([preferably earth based around using your shield).
Agreed
You just said that outside an initial push, a new tank class has never made an impact on queues. However, we still have people that want to tank — just not on learning an entirely new class. I can’t speak for warlocks and hunters outside of seeing threads asking for tanks consistently over the years, but I know for certain many shaman would take up the tank mantle if it was offered. It’s asked for perhaps even more than 2h returning.
Because ele/enhance/resto already share a gameplay that is incredibly similar and don’t require large degrees of changing how you play and learning new mechanics/roles/how to play?
Sorry, I still believe based on the current way shaman are…you’d have to “learn an entirely new class”.
So as an example if the new tank spec also ran off maelstorm weapons…
And you used the following:
MW x 5 to CL cleave
MW x 5 LB to single target dmg
MW x 5
MW x 5 Healing Surge
And your tank mechanic was a passive that worked off your dodge/parry chance — which you have buffs baked into the class for just being a tank (my strength of air/grace of air example)
And your gameplay loop priority was —
Flame Shock if not on target or about to expire
Rockbiter
Primal Strike (lul)
Frost Shock
You would be learning an entirely new class?
Ascendance can also make its way into this kit, and grant you even stronger defensives and be horrific brown-tinted version of our current awful model.
Because if they were going to add it, I would expect them to do it in the easiest way possible.
Currently, Maelstrom Weapons is in the class tree but that makes little sense — as its exclusively for Enhance. So why not incorporate it into the tank spec as well? Make it a melee spec talent.
OR, just use the version of Enhance that no longer exists (Legion/BFA) - and turn that skeleton of build dump with rockbiter into a tank spec
Build with Rockbiter, dump into a defensive earth-based shield ability
LB goes back to instant cast but very little dmg.
CL also instant cast for the tank, but with a cooldown.
Enhance has windfury. Enhance has doom winds. Enhance has flametongue weapon. Enhance has lava lash, Feral Spirits, Stormstrike, Fire Nova, Crash Lightning, Hailstorm, etc.
There is enough difference to set them apart, even if they both end up using maelstrom weapons.
Rogues and Feral both use combo points and stealth, but still play differently.
Resto and Elemental both use lava surge and stormkeeper, and aren’t copy/pastes.
I think Blizzard has done a fairly good job of not always needing a good reason to do something completely different. But I get what you’re saying.
It’s certainly a stretch in terms of time/resources to create vs does-this-content-increase-and-sustain subscribers. I don’t think a new tank spec would be something that would get more players interested in the game, or particularly keep others playing, compared to new raids/dungeons/arenas/full classes/areas/transmogs. But if Blizzard did have the unlimited/free resources to develop and balance such a spec, it is fun to think about what it could be like. There’s no harm in dreaming up and discussing things, even if it is a pipe dream.
I think it would make sense to have another melee spec utilize this mechanic.
I think this is a good point, though I don’t think it would prevent a 4th spec. While all 3 do revolve around all 4 elements, there is a definitely a lean in each (see class mount for details). The theoretical-tank spec would be the “Earth” spec as much as Elemental is “fire” and Enhancement is “air”. But both those two specs can easily build into the other elements (though neither have as nearly as many water spells as Resto).
The theoretical tank spec could have some more Earth-based spells, but also would have water, fire, and air. There’s lots of possibilities with how it would work, spreading flame shocks in its own unique way (maybe with an updated/alt version of Flametongue totem?), having its own version of Earth Shock be an interrupt again, and generate big threat, bringing back Stone Claw totem, maybe a Frost elemental, whatever. While it would be handy to add some more Earth Spells in, it could easily have other elements too.
im happy to see a shaman tank spec i just dont think people should expect it to be fully earth themed when all other shaman specs use all elements.
Earth heavy themed spec would make sense though, but i could see healing wave being part of self healing, an earth shield skill (thats actually a shield) a unique off hand enchant, and boulderfist as their main enchant.
Id guess also adding in ice strike too simply because its mainhand attack, and i suspect earthquake would work as aoe. I could see earthquake applying flameshock, im sure i remember that interaction existing at some point (was it bfa? idk)
It does, but it shouldnt. Id like to see all elements represented for resto, i think the main heals being water with chain heal and riptide is fine, and even their big cooldown, but the other elements should be represented.
I doubt the shaman tank spec would use lava lash since its an offhand attack and shamans use shields, maybe blizz will make it DW but id kind of prefer another shield spec since only 2 tanks even use shields. I agree with most of what you are saying tbh, my only real criticism was the idea that its an earthern specialist which is wrong for shamans since every spec uses every element regardless of whether they favor one or another.
I’m totally down for an earth/tank spec to balance the four elements and we have 3 leather wearing tanks so why not mail with a shield?
Also with there being 4 specs for Druid and 2 for demon hunter and also only 2 for Evoker, we’re down a spec and have a slot “open” imo to round things out.
But water elemental for the earth spec? I see what you’re going for as far as the heal but I think earth with the health boost and maybe damage reduction and a shield or leech buff would be way more thematic to reinforce the earth theme and cooler as a defensive tank cd. Heals can com from Earth Shield, which would also be quite thematic.
Now all we need is for the fifth “heart” spec to form Captain Planet .
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