Yeah, that dungeon has never been popular.
Which seems more than fair! From what Iāve heard it is ridiculously difficult just to get the socketed items in the first place.
See, the thing is, Iām not stuck in a traditional thought loop, nor coming from a place of simple selfish fulfillment. I simply want the game to open up and develope better for everyone, in all areas of gameplay.
However, all I can do, or best I can do, is to put forth ideas.about the content that I enjoy.
But, yeah, that seems like a great advancement as well. āValorā or whatever its raid equivalence is called would be great to have a vendor to where you can slowly save up and Iād your just having really ish luck at getting a drop, it could be a safety net.
Good idea btw. 
Edit: This is literally exactly what I meant earlier when I was trying to tell someone itās not an āUs versus Themā mentality. Players, especially raiders need to realize that, they can stay special, nobodies wanting to come and smash your toys and take your special candy.
I donāt even know what the sockets are as a non raider. Thats why their current game fails. Thereās not 1 mountain top but 5 to climb for gearing up.
I think raid needs a bone. I never raided before and I donāt consider myself one. But after trying raids, the huge amount of time, bosses and all just to get a piece of loot that can be easily defeated by M+ feels weird.
I even though Normal SoD needed to be at least 235 when I tried it. I found it annoying, mechanics annoying (First times done) and bosses taking a lot to down, just to go to the vault loot and find that the hard earned loot I got was Ilvl 226, while the casual run I did with a M+ was higher.
Is that or also increasing Vault loot for raids by 10 Ilvl or something.
I agree.
This is the point Iām kinda trying to make, it it doesnāt have to be a this or that type of scenario,
Of course, raiding deserves to be rewarded for equivalent achievement.
Raiding and Mythic Plus are both mostly an exercise in choreography and muscle memory. There is definitely significant distinctions but high enough Mythic Keys offers comparable difficulty, especially to heroic raiding, I have raided before and Iām not even making an argument of which is āharderā or āmore difficultā, That argument seems to primarily stem from mid tier raiders and is super tired and full of holes anyways. When I raided 50% or more of the difficulty was simply getting people to show up when they say they would. Im not knocking raiding at all though, I am aware that it can be equally difficult and in Mythic Raiding comparable to Mythic Dungeon Keys.
However, I still envision a better reward system for all three of the endgame pillars(Pvp/M+/Raiding). That is my point, not what is more worthy, etc.
The cycle of Normal Dungeons>Heroic Dungeons>Mythic Dungeons>Raiding OR PvP is fine to a degree but the design and reward structure definitely fails at a certain point.
Maybe the answer is not giving Mythic plus a Domination Socket equivalent. I dunno what the answer is BUT I do that the mentality of arguing over āwho gets the better lootā and āwhat type of content is more difficultā comes down to folks simply representing there own interests of the moment at what they themselves do.
There has got to be a way to structure rewards so that they are reflective of each particular type of content and itās particular difficulty while also being compatible with all 3 pillars of endgame content.
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You canāt do DPS if you die.
Getting an extra 6k hp and 250 HPS for āfreeā is a pretty big deal. Iāve been in situations on my Shaman where Iāve had 1-4% HP and I was only alive because I had 13% extra HP for free.
Blah blah blah āinfinite scalingā, blah blah blah āMythic 15 is easyā, blah blah blah āclass balanceā, Iāve heard all the excuses already.
Dom Sockets are important for M+. If you donāt do at least Heroic raiding every week then youāre gimping yourself in 9.1.
To be honest, after spending some time playing other games recently that donāt have this kind of problem from the fan-base, I donāt really understand the need for people (āshillsā) to adamantly defend Blizzard in regard to M+, especially from players who donāt even M+. Brewa, stop talking about M+, you barely play it. Nobody needs you to come in and talk about it. Youāre not needed here at all.
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I try to appreciate everyoneās input, however, some players seem to lose there logic and composure altogether when talking about the the possibility that Raiding might not be the ultimate ideal pinnacle of endgame content and other things like PvP and Mythic Plus can be enjoyed by people NOT as a means to an end for gear but as a form of content they actually enjoy.
Bringing it up turns otherwise seemingly level-headed people into overzealous lunaticsā.
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Yea it blows my mind too. It blows my mind that anyone would rather dungeons just be left to rot rather than being used for the entire expansion.
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Raiding is one of the few things left that separates WOW from other games. Even FF (which is the closest game to WOW currently) doesnāt really have large scale, high level Raiding like Warcraft. In the same way that the devs donāt want to drop the faction war because they see it as something unique to WOW they donāt want Raiding to go away. That means getting more players into Raiding somehow.
Balancing factors other than completion difficulty between Raiding and M+ is a tightrope walk for Blizz. Dom sockets seem to have been a test to see how far they can go to get more people Raiding. Itās going to be interesting to see what they learned once we see the effects on Tier sets.
Iād love to see more cosmetic rewards in M+ and Iād also love to see solo content that offers power and cosmetic rewards on par to M+ and Raiding.
Indeed.
I really hope that with WoW Classic being a thing, Blizzard takes inspiration from the past and just brings back dungeon sets as an alternative to raid tier sets, but I guess time will tell.
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Fair point, I always considered dungeons to be in the same progression bracket as zone questing. You get it over with so you can get to the real content (raids).
Again though Iām not a PvE player at this point, so Iām speaking as someone that doesnāt enjoy dungeons.
If there really is a demand for Mythic Dungeons over Raids, then Blizz should cash in on that.
Thereās always been a demand for content that has less barriers to entry.
10 Player Raids were more popular that 25 Player Raids.
Mythic Plus is more popular than Raiding.
If they ever have a true solo end game that would be more popular than Mythic Plus.
Itās up to the devs to determine whatās healthiest for the game. WOW is already close to being a small group, Lobby game and if the devs think thatās the best direction for the future theyāll double down on M+ and solo content.
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Ya like, Iāve heard the argument that if you make Mythics more valuable then raiding will die.
If thatās the case though, then they should take a close look into how they design raids rather than forcing people into them. If a piece of content isnāt as enjoyable, then fix it.
I raided a bit back in TBC & Wrath and loved the 10-man format. As you said, it decreased the barrier to entry. I also felt you were able to develop better relationships with your team.
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I think itās more about the logistics and time requirement of Raiding as opposed to the fun factor since fun is subjective.
I hope Blizz does a deep dive into end game for 10.0 and beyond. Running the same dungeons over and over and over for 2 years is pure tedium to me even with the way Affixes shake things up. Thereās also the issue with how exclusionary M+ and Raiding can feel to a good chunk of the player base whether those feelings are valid or not.
This is a tipping point for WOW.
I might be a minority here, but I miss legendaries being actual legendaries not a necessary item. I also miss the simplicity of tier sets. You knew what to get, where to get it. It was that simple. There was the equivalent pvp sets as well. I have been trying to gear up my druid as tank desperately but so far Iāve hit 238 on accident for feral since so much crit/mastery drops vs what I need for my tank spec.
These discussions always seemed to be balanced on top of the fulcrum of
ādo you feel like raiding is intrinsically more difficult because of the logistical challenges of organizing 20(+) people versus organizing 5 people, and do you think that intrinsic level of challenge merits greater rewards.ā
Last night I was trying to do the dishes when Ion and Bobby broke into my house and said āSkatemongo wtf do you think you are doing?? Itās raid or die, youāve got dom sockets to farm you peasant.ā
Yeah so here I am I guess itās raid or dieā:flushed:
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I didnāt read much of anything here. Just the title.
But I think it should be known that the docket bonus only works in the raid and the maw.
Actually no, this game has become M+ or die.
M+ is just so much easier than raiding. It rewards failure with gear that has a higher ilvl than raiding. Itās the easiest way to gear by far, and far more rewarding.
Oh, and it can be spammed 24/7, no weekly lockout.
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It really is the worst system in a raid, and even the most pathetic because you not only need these gems, but also complete them according to the spec you need.
I do not understand that a pathetic copy of what was the Sha-gems come in MoP came to mind, even that was tolerable in that expansion.