# Stacking Haste - Theorycraft

Calling on all nerds.

Haste stacking appears to be additive. I’ve decided to test this and perform a series of experiments. This will probably be of interest to Fury Warriors as well.

Libram of Rapidity = 1% Haste to Head
Libram of Rapidity = 1% Haste to Legs
Enchant Minor Haste = 1% Haste to Gloves
Iron Counterweight = 3% Haste to 2H weapon

Haste affects the TIME portion of DPS. DPS is Damage per Second. Which is in fact a function of TIME. When you add Attack Power you are increasing the damage portion of DPS. Haste affects the TIME portion.

Feral Druid Cat form has a 1.0 attack speed, which is 1 attack per second.
Stacking 6% haste has in fact reduced this down to 0.94. The Manual Crowd Pummeler increases attack speed by 50% for 30 seconds. Which should theoretically make a Feral Cat attack at 0.44.

With some basic math, I know the following is true.
1.0 = 1x attack speed
0.5 = 2x attack speed
0.33 = 3x attack speed
0.25 = 4x attack speed

Notice how haste scales. Stacking haste gets better the more attack power, crit and damage you deal. In other words, your enchants become more powerful as your gear and buffs are piled on. This is not the case if you spend 100g on a flat +8 from Voracity. I suspect the reason for this is because haste works as a percentage.

Now the fun part.

As a horde player, you guys have Warchief’s blessing providing 15% haste. There’s a Juju buff that adds 2% for 20 seconds. Is it possible for a Horde Feral Cat to have an attack speed of 0.27? That would be 4x attack speed!

Sounds interesting, would be neat to see someone test it out.

1 Like

And then MCP’s on top of that? Sound pretty OP to me. I’d be interested to see how this turns out.

1 Like

Maybe different for melee, but the issue is, there’s simply just isn’t enough haste to be able to make any real world difference, you’re gonna get way more out of 16 main stat. Even with TBC, I experimented with making haste gems, every other gem was haste and I only got some odd like 2% haste out of it. You simply can’t get enough of it to make any real difference. WOTLK however, yeah you an drop attack speed down quite a bit.

But I wouldn’t not try doing it, I think the ‘metas’ are a load of bs, always room to experiment and possibly find something new. Just telling you what I’ve found experimenting with it myself.

TBC changed the formula. Crit and Haste became multiplicative instead of additive. Haste and Crit in Classic are additive. You can keep stacking them until you break something.

Juju is bugged and not going to be fixed. Its 3% but it works like seal of the crusader and lowers your flat damage.

1 Like

Juju does increase speed but does decrease dmg per strike there is a blue post bout it just today

You are over-complicating this.

In a simplified napkin-math sense, abilities like critical, haste, etc. provide a multiplicative benefit while abilities like attack power provide an additive one.

So let’s say I have the choice between +8 Strength and +1% haste. +8 Strength translates into 16 Attack Power (for Warriors and some other classes). 16 Attack Power translates into +1.14 dps. Thus, if the dps of my attacks prior to multiplicative modifiers (like critical and haste) is 114 or more, then 1% haste will be better than +8 Strength.

This isn’t perfectly accurate, but it’s close-enough-for-government-work close.

2 Likes

wasn’t viable until sunwell. 21% haste is .89… not .25

Ok so activating a MCP makes Feral Cat attack at 0.67 not 0.50 as I once thought. So the MCP increases the weapon attack speed by 50% not the Cat form attack speed.

If the default Feral Cat attack speed is 1.0 then a Feral Cat attack speed of 0.67 is like a 33% haste isn’t it?

Still better off with agi, only troll bm hunters and ele shamans got a large benefit from haste starting at the end of tbc.

I remember haste not being a thing until late TBC because there was soo little of it.

What mattered then was getting your hit %
I remember 6 or something like that. Then later on 16.

So long ago.

If it’s working like that then here’s how to think of it.

50% haste is granting 50% more attacks per unit time.

Going from 1.0 to .66666666667 means you’d get 50% more attacks.

1 Like

This reminds me of my WotLK days as an Arcane mage, attempting to stack as much spell haste as I could to get 1 second Arcane Blast casts.

Good times

Time is such a facinating topic isn’t it?

This is the correct formula.

New attack speed = Original attack speed/(1+Haste).

For example, you have your cat attack speed of 1.0 seconds. You have 50% haste from MCP. 1.0/(1 + 0.5) = 1/1.5 = 0.67.

Incidentally, this formula always means that +1% haste = +1% autoattack DPS. Using a linear formula like you (OP) assumed originally is exponential.

1 Like

Yep, plus if it was the other way it might be possible to literally break the game. 50% MCP. 30% flurry, 15 % warchief blessing, 1% leg 1% hat, 1% enchant 2% juju = 100%.

Using the op formula your attack speed would be 0. You get infinite attacks at once and the game crashes lmao. Clearly that isn’t possible so it has to be the other version.

1 Like

An attack speed of 0 would also assume that Time is also 0. An infinite amount of actions happening simultaneously. Head explodes.

1 Like