OK … then what’s your solution? I fully expect the outcome of this expansion will be the return of the Black Empire (moving into the next expansion). The Shadowlands getting an expansion is a possibility as well … but its less likely. However, either way, we find ourselves at an impass. You cannot punish the Horde FACTION without punishing the Horde PLAYERBASE (who in no way had any control, or even wanted, another round of Villain batting).
As awful as this is to say, FUNCTIONALLY (with how utterly Hero Centric Blizz is when it comes to writing this game) the NEs are NOT in that bad a situation right now. While narratively it makes sense for them to seek vengeance, functionally Teldrassil cost them little more than a new-player hub and a center for NE RP. They lost ZERO major characters from their oppressively large roster of A and B listers; their representation is absolutely insane right now to ensure they maintain relevance in future expansions.
The Horde in contrast is doing very poorly on that front. Our ever shrinking roster of underused; underpowered; and/or underdeveloped heroes cannot functionally take too many more hits before the faction is just so damaged beyond repair we Horde players will have little to look forward going forward but to be a tagalong in more Legion style expansions and stories. And … unfortunately … whenever we get hit with the Villain Bat … we lose A+B list representatives… and Blizz doesn’t replace them.
The Alliance winning this war is great in theory, but you cannot expect HALF the playerbase to pay real money for the other half’s storyline going forward. Legion was a half-way decent story … but in NO WAY do the Horde (or its players) have ANY relevance in it. Its part of the reason I’m fairly convinced that Sylvanas will abandon the Horde and escape at the end of BfA (she wont die) … and part of the reason we’ll likely lose another A-Lister (Saurfang) in the process…
Warcraft has ALWAYS been character centric. That is not changing. Same way that comic books are focused on characters and why they’ve always had plot holes. Because they don’t really matter.
I guess the Alliance players should get ready for a robot bunny in 8.2? (Or maybe that’s already in the game, with the Alliance PC spying on Baine’s arrest.)
Honestly–and I in no way mean this to sound like I’m downplaying the burning of Teldrassil or the strength of Alliance players’ reactions to it–it didn’t even cost them that, in practical terms. You can still level new Night Elves in Darnassus, and even at max level, you can still go there just by jumping through the extra hoop of talking to the dragon. Again, I’m talking impact on gameplay experience, not story or emotional impact.
First of all its not my job to think about the outcomes, blizzard is paying some guys to write this dumpsterfire and we know they are capable of doing good stories because some of the zones are well developed, also you seem to imply i want dissatisfaction for the horde playerbase but then go ahead and are much more than ok to sacrifice the alliance playerbase for the sake of convenience AGAIN then refute me for stating my opinion on that, i acknowledge that some horde is unhappy with the story but guess what? so are we need i remind you we started losing this expansion and had to do a quest about saving civilians and failing? no matter what they do this expansion is screwed and someone will get shafted and stopy playing but this entirely on them, i will stop there i dont want to start comparing who lost what because i can play the victim card too but at the end it would be idiotic and a waste of time.
Still, want to know my solution? besides timetravel, kerrigan 2.0 (blegh) or deus ex to unscrew this turdsandwich for your scenario to happen and for the alliance to go with it, the horde upholding honor has to be addressed, the alliance and the horde were both there “dude you failed to uphold honor again, what are you gonna do to convince me after the tree was burned?” i am NOT saying this has to happen like this but it must be adressed, night elves MUST do something to screw sylvanas equally, i also have no idea if nathanos, voss, saurfang, thrall or baine participating in this scenario will give satisfaction to the horde playerbase because they are divided on sylvanas camp and on the honor horde camp.
For the sake of exercising my thinking muscle, ill say I dont know how it will play out but it must be something like this.
while sylvanas has like 2-3 final traps to kill us, sira and delaryn screw the plan on her face, then Boytoy shafts her full of arrows(it doesnt have to be EXACTLY like this but you get the gist of it), everyone knows he loves her and this is fantasy in order to get catharsis this MUST play as a tragedy, digging her hole deeper herself and nathanos will do the coup the grace since he is the one that will be in more grief when it happens and that would shock everyone salvaging the character, night elves get somewhat some vengeance because sira and delaryn were sleeper agents all the time, lorthemar gets chosen as the horde representative, he is on a somewhat good standing within the alliance, he will have a title and it will NOT be Warchief since they will do away with that position for all the problems it caused he will make reparations to the alliance asking the dragons for help to rebuild the tree and lordaeron, it doesnt even have to be shown outside of the cinematic but it must be shown.
Thats fair I suppose … and I guess the general gist that I gather from your mental exercise is while the Horde should absolutely lose this war … it should be rebuilt to be more stable and functional (essentially giving it the option of becoming a Faction worth fighting for; rather than one bound by the whims of the next crazed Warchief). I generally agree … though I’m not sure on Lor’themar bit. Thrall is probably the safest bet to inherit the (hopefully soon) vastly politically weakened Warchief mantel. He’s probably the least contentious choice out of those available.
EDIT: Sort of like breaking a bone that healed wrong, to have a chance at it setting properly.
You really want green jesus on the big chair again? id could argue someone else is needed for a fresh start and that is where lor’themar comes in and he is okish with most of the alliance, this is entirely subjective i guess but i dont see thrall swearing to make a better horde and it being believable but for some reason i see lor’themar more than capable, they already adressed a problem i had with him being warchief, that his motivations were more blood elf centric but a dialog of him implies he now thinks on the wellbeing of the horde at the same level than he cares for his people.
Edit: Green jesus back may imply going back to his first vision of the horde but, i dont know i remain unconvinced, in my mind it makes sense and maybe im biased but i really want to see lor’themar as the next head.
Thrall? Sure! If his new model is any indication of the way his character has developed, it seems like Green Jesus has finally kicked the bucket; leaving what appears to be a far truer form of Thrall (one far more reflective of his WC3 roots). Also, its hard for me to really chastise Thrall for the Green Jesus nonsense after it seems he’s been depowered AND Legion had several “Alliance” characters pulling the “Green Jesus” narratives of their own (Magni; Velen; Illidan; Kadghar…)
Lor’themar … he may be loyal to the Horde (and he does seem to care for the faction, being indebted to it for saving his people) … his prioritize really are half a world away. Its sort of the same idea as saying the Malfurion should be the next leader of the Alliance (he’d be competent enough I suppose, but his people are on the other side of the world). Plus, lets be honest, the idea of replacing and “Elf” with another Elf is unlikely to be taken all that positively by many.
We’ll see how things go … and what they do with Thrall. Though I do think that with Gazlowe; Rexxar; and Rokhan all getting a stronger presence; Baine getting a “Mufasa Moment” with Cairne; and Vol’jin back (and presumably ascending to a loa) … we’re not missing very many from the original WC3 squad.
Lor’themar did what I hoped he would (for the reason I hoped he would), but I think his actions served better to finally cement the BEs into the original “New Horde” ideals (and that should really get rid of that classic criticism with the BEs being Horde) than prop him up as a “Warchief”.
Personally, I don’t have many hopes for the Horde in BfA. While I have NO idea what they’re going to do about the NE issue … I guess I’d be OK if the Horde “lost” this war; provided they take the time to build a stronger foundation for the faction as a result. But … it will take time and the right leaders taking charge to do that. Nathanos turning on Sylvie; Voss committing to her people; Gazlowe and Mida replacing Gallywix … steps like this would help.
I’d rather have Vol’jin come back. I think that would actually be less contentious than Thrall, since he doesn’t have the “raised by humans” and “only one who can stop the Horde from being evil” problems.