[Spoilers] Looks like more villain bat

Spoilers…

Heard about Thrall. Got my hopes up just a little. Of course that was mistake.

Did the Crucible of Storms storyline. Bottom line, the old gods are the Horde’s fault too and the villain bat keeps hitting.

Looks like the rest of the story for the Horde will be more Garrosh 2.0 on steroids. Thrall will come back and will help the great hero of planet (ie. the leader of the Alliance), deal with the biggest source of evil, ie. the Horde. We will continue as champions of the greatest villain (our war chief) until we forget everything and join with the noble Alliance in stopping our own side.

On the plus side, I think I am over the hump in the ultimate goal in Kerbal Space Program, landing and returning a Kerbal from the planet Eve.

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To be fair, Anduin isn’t a bad leader, he’s just an unsure one who values his fellow leaders more than Varian did.

After all the suckerpunches that the Horde have given the Alliance, and the perpetual forgiveness of Alliance leaders, we’ll see barely any repercussions to the Horde (other than a new Warchief) and the Alliance will pack up and go wait to get sucker punched again.

Considering Teldrassil is gone, and Undercity plagued to the point that NO one can call it home, I’d say the Horde is going to be the Heroes. They actually set out to ACCOMPLISH things. Alliance just… undoes the damage to the world and waits.

Remember, that a divided, weakened Horde is more than a match for the Alliance, and can fight a three front war, while the Alliance struggles with two.

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How is Horde the heroes when they don’t undo the damage to the world?

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Because when all is said and done, the Horde will get credit for undoing the damage too.

Syvlanas + Horde cause problem.
Alliance goes to fix problem.
Horde + Alliance cooperate to fix problem.

Horde are now heroes too. Zero accountablity for past actions.

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This is the best part of Blizzard’s narrative. Since they can’t actually punish Players for the actions the Story forces them to take, the only recourse is to make everyone a hero in the end, no matter how much evil they committed.

Alliance Paladin fights for justice, truth, and the protection of innocents. He gets a Hero medal.

Horde Warrior fights to feel fresh orphan blood on his face, watch families turn to ash during a conflagration, and lies, cheats, steals, but also fights the same villain as the Alliance Paladin at the end. So he gets a Hero medal too!

Everyone’s a Hero! I worked so hard to stain my tabard red with the blood of the innocent, I can’t wait to shake Anduin’s hand.

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Knowing Anduin, he’d shake your hand, smile in genuine thanks, and send you off with a blessing, a quest-reward knife to stab him in the back with later, and a map of every Alliance city.

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Isn’t he just the best? And when everyone else fusses about it, he tells them to stop being so hateful, and it’s his decision!

I think my character will take lunch to go, and just start violently trying to devour the closest Draenei nearest to him. When the other Alliance take offense, i always have my “Pardoned by order of the High King” paperwork.

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This company gave us time-travelling Orcs from space. They make a lot of surprising decisions.

Do not be surprised if they pull some kinda “redemption” plot or “she was right all along” arch with Sylvanas where everything she’s done was to steal N’Zoth’s power and use it to defeat a new antagonist in the Shadowlands. I’m sure whatever they do will piss a significant portion of the playerbase off. I just don’t see them totally rehashing Garrosh’s story.

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Any words on the crucible of storms storyline, i just know sylvanas might be trying to free nzoth.

This is true. However, it is not the whole story. The Horde can be punished and/or shown to have real costs for their actions.

We could see (or at the very least told about) them pulling out of territories. Think of the Horde withdrawing from places like Ashenvale, Stonetalon, Ferales, Stranglethorn, Hillsbred, Arathi, etc. If we see a least a couple placed and are told about some others it would feel like the Horde actively suffered costs. It would feel like the Horde payed for the war.

We could also see the Horde taking actions to try and repair what they did. For example, we could have a quest/scenario where we help out caravans from the Horde sending supplies to Alliance refugees. The Horde could send druids and shaman to help the Night Elves establish a new city, growing a new tree (or multiple smaller trees) and warding and protecting it. Or a number of other examples that could happen effectively showing the Horde is willing to pay for the crimes it was a part of. In this case them showing they are willing to spend their resources and time helping those they hurt.

And those could be done where the player gets to experience them, both Horde and Alliance. And honestly doing things like that would not be punishing to most players. The players do not have to lose access to anything. The players do not have to be beat down or lose access to leveling zones while the Horde tries to make amends. Outside of the most hardcore, kill all Alliance minded Horde players, I doubt many would really feel all that penalized.

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I’d rather eat my eyeballs.

Edit: Or better yet, refugee eyeballs.

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It would have to actually be in the game to make an impact. The Horde was supposed to have pulled out of a couple of territories post-Cataclysm, but it didn’t happen in the game, and people are still complaining about that.

It would feel like we had unequal numbers of leveling zones again.

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That is why I had suggested we see a couple/few and get told about a couple/few others. I agree that some of it has to happen in game to make it feel real. But, not all of it. Some can happen off screen. For example, you could have a quest/scenario where you supervise and or help pack up the Horde bases in Ashenvale and while you are doing it an NPC can tell you about the Horde also withdrawing from Stonetalon. And after the scenario the bases can be left and the NPCs removed and some replaced by animals from the zone. This showing the base abandoned.

Not in the slightest. Blizzard has the tech to change it only after experiencing certain events. Take for example Darkshore and Teldrassil. They are still leveling zones.

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Well…

He did say this:

:woman_shrugging:

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I could tolerate this without feeling penalized, but only if the Horde gets some sort of moral triumph that the Alliance doesn’t get to share in (and which isn’t against other Horde). Say, perhaps, that the reason the Horde ends up losing to the Alliance is because they take the high road and spend their forces saving the world from a major third party threat, while the Alliance opportunistically hoards their forces and attacks the weakened Horde. Something like that.

But if the only thing the Horde can feel heroic over is defeating other Horde (again), or shared content (which the Alliance gets to do without the villain bat), then dwelling on any consequences would indeed feel punishing.

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How many threads like this will be made?

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So you want me to feel bad so you can feel good?

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A better question might be: Why would the Horde peacefully withdrawing from a fight they started make you feel bad? Why would the Horde making an effort at amends make you feel bad?

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You haven’t answered my question yet. I’ll answer yours, though.

The Horde being forced to lose, after being forced to be the villains, would suck. It would be just adding insult to injury for the players who never signed up for any of that.

You have to know that what you are suggesting would be terrible for Horde players.

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I was never suggesting you should have to feel bad is the point.

So, the Horde should be the villains and win? The Alliance should just lose because some Horde players don feel like they should only ever get to kill the Alliance and never have to do anything good? Look, the Horde committed a massive atrocity in a war they started. There needs to be consequences to that. The story would not make any sense without it. If the Horde facing consequences ‘sucks’ for you, maybe you should ask yourself why?

Which was the point of trying to demonstrate the Horde faction making amends, not something that limits the player.

No. A lot of the Horde claim they signed up for the ‘Noble Savage’ role. A lot of Horde players say they want to do right, not be the evil faction. Well, if you want the noble part of the noble savage, it means trying to better the world and fix wrongs, even if it is wrongs done by your allies.

It feels a lot like the argument is ‘I didn’t sign up to be evil, so don’t make me do good. So, just let me go on killing Alliance and winning.’

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