[Spoiler]Judgement of Sylvanas

Lore Story Forum
1741

At this point, I am going to channel my inner Hillary Clinton and say : “What difference does it make?!”

I kind of hope we merge the Factions so we can get over this Faction tit for tat. Heck, I am guilty of it, but it goes no where. The Horde is like a Tee Ball glued to the Tee, getting constantly whacked with the villain bat. Or worse, they tag along with the Alliance in their adventures, like in Argus and Shadowlands.

I don’t even want the people I dislike on the Alliance dead, I just hate that they are my enemies in one patch, and my quest givers in the next. Like Genn and Jaina. And at this point, making them villains makes little sense. Genn seems to have turned into a softie. He doesn’t hate the Horde or Forsaken, now, and he just wants Sylvanas to be punished.

I guess if Sylvanas ever returns, Genn might be mad at Anduin and Jaina… but he might even understand, especially if Tyrande judges her. He probably would respect what judgement Tyrande metes out.

What does villain batting the Alliance even look like? We have little to consider. The Horde has had two Warchiefs be evil, the leaders of our Faction. Our whole Faction led by evil and doing evil acts for patch after patch. And what is the common refrain from Alliance posters?

“Hey, the Alliance has had some big name consequential Characters go evil too! Fandral and Benedictus!”

I mean, they aren’t even racial leaders, much less leaders of the entire Faction. They are big names in the religions but not THE leaders of the race or Faction.

And who is on the horizon? Yrel? She is so new to the story, I am not excited about it. She feels more Alliance Adjacent than actually Alliance. I don’t know if she ever joined it or just worked for it.

Turalyon and Alleria - eh, OK. They are big Alliance names… but they don’t feel like part of the events of WC3 onward. It doesn’t feel like the Alliance I have been fighting in WoW.

I guess at this point in the Story, it is hard to really see any good in a villain batted Alliance. Maybe if the Alliance did more evil stuff during BfA, and the Horde wasn’t shown to be led by evil for evil’s sake… but I think the time is passed.

2 Likes
1742

Most Alliance members would also like to see their justified anger at the Horde represented. Genn, Muradin, Tyrande and Alleria, and Turalyon would be perfect embodiments of this hatred.

So it’s not as one-sided as you’re making it out to be. It’s not like the Horde has to pay for it somehow in the narrative on the part of the Alliance. The Alliance - again - seems to just ignore/play it down and the narrative ignores it and treats it as if everyone has forgiven. To cover it up they hide it behind idiotic words and think they can create a meaningfull narrative with a few players like Tyrande, but without any real impact on the fanbase, because they are no longer willing to participate or join in.

5 Likes
1743

When is Sylvanas’ judgement anyway? Will we at least see the last two cinematics next week?

1744

is - as far as i remember - the last topic of the 9.2 questline. Called “Judgement”, so you have to be patient atleast for a few weeks.

1745

That sucks. I personally just want to be done with this already. At the very least we should see how the Jailer ends next week, although I’m not that hopeful about how this all ends.

1746

Beliefe me, everyone wants to be done with this, in some way atleast. Even hardcore Sylvanas fans are …tired.

1747

The “arthas was the soul used to forge the blade” is the cherry on top of this questionable pile of garbo that is Anduin’s corruption and sudden redemption.

The idea of Arthas’s soul being the fuel that created the new Daddy Dom blade that Anduin wielded is a neat one. However, I really felt that the story suffered GREATLY from the complete lack of buildup and foreshadowing.

Throughout the Shadowlands we have yet to see the souls cast in the maw being physically formed into the weapons of the Jailer. You TOLD us its happening. You failed to show us. “SHOW DONT TELL” as a mantra, in an MMO, leads to success. WE loved WOTLK because Arthas was showing up in every zone, being a badass.

The only time I can recall the forging of these blades being referenced is that 9.1 cinematic where the Jailer and Sylvy are chatting.

Also, the sudden inclusion of Wrynn and Varuk was another WTF. No allusions, they just showed up.

1748

Things feel a little abrupt because they are. Despite what they say to save face, they almost certainly cut the actual 9.2 and 9.2.5 due to time and resource constraints and skipped right to what should of been 9.3

Being fair you do see it to some degree in Torgast, in the bits of incomplete soul armor.

2 Likes
1749

Well that and there is literally maw minions working at forges all throughout the maw. Most people aren’t that perceptive though

1750

Probably not until the last week of March.

1751

I believe we’re waiting for the epilogue chapter of the MSQ for 9.2. So, few more weeks because that’s how Blizz does it.

1752

That is just so odd. Normally it should be the raid cinematic that should be the end/highlight. Instead it has to be Sylvanas’ judgement. You would think it would have been release at the same time.

1753

The Judgement of Sylvanas is:

-Guilty of being badly written.

-Her punishment is becoming ten times more controversial than she was back when she was just a ruthless, *itchy backstabber but at least then she was honest about being those things; and no one will ever be able to mention her again without causing a long argument.

9 Likes
1754

When I read this, my brain translated it into “itchy backsider” and I was trying to think of a cinematic where it looked like Sylvanas was scratching her butt.

I think I need more sleep.

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1755

Just replace Baine from the last patch’s Cinematic with Sylvanas and there you go.

1756

Rolls up sleeves “My time has come!”

I’ve been on this wild ride for 4 years. What’s eternity to BFA?

1757

I am just not going to get into meta story; like I’ve brought up before, there’s a front-of-the-mind and the back-of-the-mind. So about the front of the mind:

Looks like they’re picking up the “Breaking-the-Cycle” thread.

Legion intro had Varian trusting Sylvanas, with commentary about trying for peace.

Saurfang and Anduin’s trusting him, with Saurfang using the words (“Breaking-the-Cycle”).

Anduin becoming Arthas is a cycle that’s broken with Varian and Saurfang helping him.

Sylvanas turning from the cycle before her soul is destroyed has already happened.

Arthas and Sylvanas interaction is the beginning of another cycle break. To finish this they only have to have Tyrande continue the arc set in Ardenweald, and not kill.

I do not think this is the original story arc they planned. I do think they’re laying narrative ground for reduced faction barriers.

P.S. The most reasonable way for the story to see Sylvanas die is during the Jailer fight. I do not see that happening since there isn’t a Sylvanas soul model. For the writing style so far, Tyrande killing Sylvanas would be a villain-bat of Tyrande.
Remember, the living mortals need to leave the Shadowlands when this ends.

1758

Hell, they dragged Kael’thas through two whole hackneyed “break the cycle or you will end up working for people whose hobby is boiling kittens alive” plot, both times against someone responsible for killing almost literally everyone he cared about, on a meta level anyone who assumes a revenge arc for Tyrande will end positively is not reading the lines of how Bliz writes, and that’s not just a “nu Bliz” thing or whatever people want to believe

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1759

I don’t think anyone was under the impression that the Tyrande revenge arc would actually result in a revenge.

The bar is so low that we are asking ourselves… will Tyrande even have the satisfaction of punching Sylvanas in the face before letting her go?
Will Sylvanas face any consequence whatsoever at all? Or is feeling bad supposed to be the punishment?

In BFA we had a foreshadowing of that, so many night elves died but look how sad Saurfang is… look at those puppy dog eyes.

11 Likes
1760

I do not believe any of this will “Break the Cycle” amongst the player base. You aren’t going anywhere without giving the Alliance fans in general and the Night Elf fans specifically catharsis for what they all went through with Teldrassil.

Ultimately trying to run away from ending this (if not just retconing it out of existence) is just going to continue to erode the players’ trust in the Devs.

9 Likes