Believe it or not, it can. It doesn’t make what happened any better though.
I don’t think the Blizzard writers are capable of creating a coherent ethical/moral through line because of the cultural milieu of US propaganda re: its own war crimes in history + the fact individual writers have proven time and time again they are profoundly ignorant of history
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How? The war of thorne was before the fourth war.
Because it is the choice of the writers to frame it a certain way and have everyone in-universe agree
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“I was just following orders” is not a valid excuse for any of the Horde leaders.
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What a lot of people don’t realize, especially die hard Blue Side posters is that the Horde’s members have little choice but to serve their warchief. The Horde is not the “Red Alliance” or at least it wasn’t originally. Unlike the Alliance, when you join the Horde you must swear a blood oath to serve the Warchief who has absolute 100% control over the entire faction. The Warchief can have advisors and receive council from the other leaders within the Horde but ultimately all of it’s major decisions rest on the Warchief. The Horde fosters a warrior culture so to serve their leader and serve them well brings them great honor.
General Nazgrim for example was an honorable orc who remained loyal to Garrosh despite his heinous deeds. Whether you agree with the Warchief is irrelevant, what matters is that you obey. What is right or wrong or logical for that matter means very little for the most loyal members of the Horde.
To defy a Warchief is not only damages your reputation but can also result in death, not only for yourself but for your family, clan or potentially your entire race. Because the Horde has very little restraints of the Warchief role, it gives dangerous individuals like Sylvanas plenty of power to do whatever they want. The faction was once again used as little more than a tool/weapon for the nefarious goals of someone who didn’t care for them and intentionally sent oathsworn warriors to their deaths as well as eternal torment in the Maw.
In the end the Horde gained very little from the conflict apart from more well deserved ire from the Alliance.The fact alone that the Horde had to dissolve the role because of how dangerous it is and how badly Sylvanas screwed them over. The Horde should be made to pay for their crimes but it should come voluntarily which baffles me that Blizzard decided that for some reason the Horde hasn’t retreated from Night Elf lands if they are serious about changing their ways.
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That oath sure didn’t stop them from staging rebellions.
Your entire argument collapses when the Horde leaders happily break their oaths when it is convenient.
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Of course there are people who disagree with their warchief. Lor’themar and the blood elves nearly rejoined the Alliance because of Garrosh, Baine went behind Sylvanas’ back to free Derek Proudmoore and Cairne fought Garrosh in a duel because of their disagreements.
It’s less convenient and more of when the plot wants to remind players that not the Horde isn’t all bad.
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Your argument is that the reason the Horde did not put a stop to Sylvanas at War of Thorns due to an oath.
Same with continuing to support her after it at Lordaeron and for the entirety of BFA until the duel.
You say this oath makes them a victim because Sylvanas had ultimate authority which they could do nothing but obey.
The problem with this argument is that this oath not only did not stop them from standing aside when it mattered but also actively participate in a rebellion.
Either the oath hangs over their heads like the Sword of Damocles or it infact does not.
Long story short the Horde and all its leaders from upper management to middle management are 100% fully responsible for War of Thorns and you can apply a 200% more culpability when they participated in her defense at Lordaeron after seeing her go full Garrosh in Act 1
They are not victims. They are active participants. Baine included.
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If it is any consolation,
At least with all indications that the faction barriers will increasingly be coming down to a large degree going forward it seems likely that the Horde won’t go super evil crazy again.
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Embracing your abuser and submitting to them seems to be a consistent theme at Blizzard Entertainment.
Given how Garrosh nearly had Vol’jin assassinated and Sylvanas executed Zeiling and imprisoned Baine immediately after he was found out, I think it speaks for itself that going behind a warchief’s back is incredibly dangerous especially as the leader of an entire race. This is the sort of treatment the Alliance never has to deal with. Your view’s on the Horde are incredibly black and white and are a little disturbing to be honest.
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According to you when the Horde leaders take this blood oath then the actions of Voljin who directly threatened garrosh and Baine who betrayed Sylvanas getting arrested and executed is to be expected.
Its not a gross betrayal by the warchief… its literally the consequence of what you describe.
Your argument is the oath makes the Horde a victim because they had no choice but to follow the warchiefs orders.
I have presented to you the oath did not stop any of the Horde leaders of doing whatever they wanted. Including staging a coup. Twice.
Why do you refuse to admit the responsibility the Horde bears for their own actions?
The Horde could have not done Teldrassil. They could have abandoned Sylvanas to face Alliance justice alone. They chose to do what they did. They were in full control and bear that responsibility.
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I never said the Horde isn’t responsible. They obviously did it and nothing will ever change that. I said the decision made for the Horde to go to war was issued by Sylvanas who held absolute control over the Horde’s decision making as well as that their culture demands that they be obedient. Sylvanas’ knew this and used it to her benefit. Yes, the Horde’s other leaders did stage two coups but were only successful with the Alliance’s assistance. I doubt they would’ve been successful without their aid on both accounts.
Of course the Horde could have not done with the War of Thorns and turned against Sylvanas but that’s not how this game works sadly. That would mean we wouldn’t have a story for Blizz’s big blockbuster faction and totally not Old God themed expansion!
Despite giving the Horde more humanity and a desire to change from their destructive ways in Warcraft 3 Blizz still needs the Horde to be hostile and violent to keep the faction conflict going.Many of the Horde’s leaders aren’t warmongers and only desire to keep their people safe so it makes little sense why they would obey the call for war against the Alliance fresh off a demon invasion when it goes against their characters. I don’t see Ji Firepaw devouring the flesh of his slain victims or Thalssyra torturing captured civilians with her magic, yet Blizzard ignores this and will have the Horde commit as many crimes as possible if it means furthering the game’s story.
I’m guessing it’s the exact same reason why the now “anti-war” Horde Council has yet to relinquish control of the Night Elf lands or done anything to compensate for their actions.
That’s just business I guess.
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The Horde leaders needed only to stay home and let Sylvanas face the Alliance alone. All I am saying is that your interpretation that the Horde had no choice but to fight the war with the Alliance is 100% completely wrong.
For the entirety of BFA they didn’t even admit to any wrong doing… Honestly, they still haven’t. Maybe Saurfang but they guy was having so much fun in WoT I don’t think his opinion counts for much at all.
If you are going to argue on a meta level then yeah I agree but since Blizzard made this decision for the consequences are that the Horde council has as much as blood on their hands as Sylvanas does. And they don’t have the split soul excuse.
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Well of course that’s what they should’ve done, but again. Blizzard wanted a faction vs faction story so everyone just sitting out and not doing anything wasn’t going to happen. As I’ve said before, it doesn’t matter who was in the right or wrong. The Horde obeys it’s Warchief, even if it’s leaders disagree with them. In regards to Saurfang his writing in BFA felt like it contradicted his discussion with Garrosh back in Wotlk. Wasn’t a fan of how they handled his character but I suppose it’s to be expected at this point.
Of course they don’t, but in the end the fate of the Horde lies with Blizzard as it’s whatever they currently feel it should be. The Horde flip flops between noble savage heroes and bloodthirsty conquerors every expansion or so to fit the game’s current story.
Either way, the Horde is pretty much screwed and everyone just has to deal with it.
I’m sure blizzard thinks it’s a great storyline for the genocidal victimizer to ALLOW the victim to do something. They can’t help themselves.
I would have liked to see the alliance be the main villains of an expansion pack for once but I knew it was never going to happen. 
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Neither alliance or horde should ever be the main villains of an expansion. They should both have ‘villains’ in their ranks that occasionally promote discord , but that is probably as far as that should be taken. The factions themselves should both be heroic according to their aesthetic.
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I agree but I just have to point out that the horde had to play the villain roles in 2 expansions and the alliance had to do this 0.
If there’s a next big bad, I would appreciate it being an alliance character.
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