Oh yeah … Was he in a comic book?
Don’t you think it would be a good idea for Blizzard to show that she wouldn’t do that, if they want her to be embraced by the playerbase?
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No, Judkins is a Quest giver in EP.
But there are other Former Apothecaries who’ve also left the Society for similar reasons.
In the same place? Do they have any dialogue?
No, sorry. I’m getting them conflated. Not all of those who left Forsaken Society were Apothecaries.
But one, I can’t remember his name, left because he didn’t think the Apothecaries were seriously trying to find a cure for their undead/plague so he set out on his own. But he’s pre-Wrath so he doesn’t count towards my original point.
Can I get a source on that?
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No, because there would be nothing to show. There has never been a basis to even consider that being a thing in the first place which means Blizzard would have create controversy out of nothing to prove a point that doesn’t exist outside of the circle jerk of the Story Forum.
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I guess we just disagree, then. I think that selling your new leader to the playerbase as someone who will stand up for their people is never a bad idea.
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While my mere words are not exactly a source… I hear tell that Blizzard initially was going to make a new Character, or a different Character, be the Lightbound Naaru blessed Forsaken. But Golden was like, “it should be Calia!”
How true that is… I can’t say. But I heard it from somewhere lol.
It seems to suggest that the Forsaken were getting some Lightbound clown to force them into being nice, either way.
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We disagree then.
If the only way to prove someone is on your side is to invent a pointless problem to prove a point that didn’t need proving, you’re only trying to convince the stupid who are likely not going to be moved anyway.
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Golden herself mentioned it on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/ChristieGolden/status/1158113979698257920?s=20
So, how would you show that Calia has shed her ties to the Alliance and would take the Forsaken’s side against them? I’m (non-sarcastically) curious.
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I am no Calia booster, but I am satisfied on that regard.
When she was alive, she … forsook … any claims to Lordaeron against the current inhabitants. Right to the face of Alliance head honchos who were eager to fight for her claim.
That was fine enough, for me, as far as her loyalties.
A: First I’d assume the playerbase aren’t full of stupid children and would require a character to be against the Alliance, to be Horde. Given the general opinions of this forum however, I’d move on to B.
B: As she’s now a advisor to Lillian Voss and resident therapist for newly and damaged undead, I’d have her interact primarily with Voss and giving state advice (whatever she can muster because as much as this board likes to ignore it, she was still a Princess so she would know some things of decorum and whatnot) as well as making sure whatever number of Forsaken raised during the Fourth War came back busted didn’t stay busted.
Of course, if you are specifically asking about a theoretical situation where it’s Forsaken vs Alliance again, assuming the Alliance are the ones that actually start it I don’t see any reason to assume Calia wouldn’t just side with the Forsaken because her people are being unjustly attacked.
Now if you’re saying that Calia is just going to attack the Alliance for no reason, then we just end up with a Lightbright Sylvanas anyway and this whole exercise was moot from the get go. Which I’m certain will make parts of this forum happy because they are all stuck on Point A.
I’ve made it painfully clear, I hate the idea that members of each faction can only be part of said faction to be in direct opposition of the other. I find it perfectly acceptable that Calia would just follow her people to the Horde if that’s the way they want and have been presented no proof she’d ever act against them for any reason. But that doesn’t mean I also expect her to just be instantly hostile towards the people she’s known on the Alliance side either, because that’s stupid and childish to expect and why people seem to think everyone on both sides have to have this deep hatred for the other just because is…dumb.
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But in a “world” where faction conflict is a given, how can you “be horde” without being ok with being “against the alliance”? If peace would be an option, sure. But so far it seems that it isn’t. At least given the devs’ stance on factions.
That is a problem within the story (IMO, maybe it’s not a problem for others). Undead raised in Guilneas are not her people. Yet refugees are. And the story recognizes it to an extent.
The questions still open: how many forsaken would follow Calia and for what reason; how the forsaken who had someone dear to them dying, say, in Southshore, would feel toward the other forsaken. Calia on her own seems like a character that just reacts to events so far, not someone active.
I think this is why people were expecting BfA faction conflict story to be full nonsense, after MoP, WoD and Legion expansions going more and more in a direction of cooperation. And it seems that blizz delivered what was expected.
gl hf
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Thanks for the source and now I can’t help but wonder how we would have reacted to this nameless undead character having Calia’s role. And you know in thinking about it I would have been cool with Vellcinda Benton being resurrected and serving in Calia’s role.
She quickly realized that the Undercity would have a power vacuum with Sylvanas doing her Warchief duties and found the answer in the Desolate Council, that not only held things together but had a system in place in order to address everyone’s concerns. At the same time she saw herself as a caretaker and willing stepped down when the rightful ruler was in the city.
Furthermore when Calia called on the Forsaken on the field to defect to the Alliance, like Parqual Fintallas and the Felstone brothers, Vellcinda rejected it, and remained loyal to the Horde. That was one death of the Gathering that actually made me sad.
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I think a new character as the “Light Zombie” would have been somewhat better than Calia.
That point became moot with the introduction of Warmode.
Not really a problem when you do the math. Lordaeron was the biggest kingdom in the world at the time that stretched across the continent. Even a Fraction of that becoming Forsaken equals to Tens (if not Hundred) of Thousands. Even considering the small percentage of non-human and non-Lordearon humans being brought into the same group, the vast majority is still Lordaerian. And even non-Lordaeron humans would feel some kinship to Lordaeron on account of it being THE center of all human civilization for most of their known history. And this is still in most of their lifetimes.
There is no basis to do the math sadly. How many were converted? Who knows. How many followed Arthas? Who knows, but there is plently of human undead in Northrend. How many could fit into Undercity, given that most of the scourge are still feral? Once again, no data.
I can see lordaeronians being the single biggest group among the forsaken, but not sure there could be more of survivors from the 1st vawe, than the number of undead raised by Sylvanas.
Maybe, maybe not. No actual data.
In game book The Seven Kingdoms, which describes some of their history, ends with
As each nation developed its own customs and beliefs, they became increasingly segregated from one another. King Thoradin’s vision of a unified humanity had faded at last.
I am not really sure if what you suggest is what we actually have. Does not seem to be the case, as most nations were just focused on their own interests above all else.
gl hf
Why? Sylvanas hasn’t been raising that many.
No Maybe. That’s the actual lore. The Vast Majority is still Lordaerian.
That doesn’t refute what I said. And King Thoradin predated the Alliance.
Really? I saw a bunch in Gilneas, Andoral, and other places. We don’t have solid numbers to draw a conclusion.
Could you provide the actual source that would be something other than admission in Before the Storm that the vast majority of undead present during the Gathering being lordaeronians? I’ve been looking since July, have nothing so far.
What you said (as I see it) is an attempt to create a custom definition of “her people” which would strip the living of the right to see her as a leading figure, but extent it across undead of non-lordaeronian origins.
What I provide is an example from the game, portraying complexity of the relationships between the human kingdoms, not a speculation of what we could think about them. We have Guilneas leaving the alliance. We have Alterac story. It’s not quite “feel some kinship” if we look at tension and betrayal present in history of the alliance. Some - maybe. But IMO it’s an attempt to replace the actual data with assumptions.
Name Menethil has a lot of baggage. It has many stories tied to it. It’s nostalgic for those who played strategy games. And because of that, that is not a blank character with which it is possible to do anything and be totally unshackled from the possible reaction of the players.
Menethil was a reason for suffering of many undead. How many? Who knows, but dismissing it entirely is a flawed approach IMO. Menethils were key to a bunch of alliance stories going from early days of Lordaeron and foundation of the alliance. Also, Calia is a key figure in a story of Lordaeron, nation, split across factions. All of it makes people see her in different ways, filled with their own ideas of what should she be alike.
Some want her to betray the human part of the nation and go all-in into the horde. Some would rather not see her there, for variety of reasons. If there would be a new unrelated character, I think we would not have any of these discussions.
And that is IMO what makes this story both interesting and potentially problematic. There are undead, who are loyal to the horde. And those who don’t see it that way. But who knows how the devs will tell that story.
gl hf
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As far as my Forsaken is concerned, anyone with the last name Menethil is bad and cursed and doesn’t need to be in a position of authority or influence ever again.
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