What is the evidence?
I see it as sufficient as regards to my character needing to be personally present to witness it, given that it really has nothing to do with the PC.
As someone whose main job it is to see to combating various wars and world ending threats, I would find it odd if they were to spend an inordinate amount of time showing me Calia playing therapist to her people.
A couple cutscenes and the character telling me that’s what they’re doing is more than enough for me to believe it is a thing that’s taking place while I’m out stabbing squidmen.
That said, I suppose it would be interesting for a Forsaken character if it was a little sidequest similar to the Night Warrior’s. Where you can go and, if you choose, get ministered by Calia, and it unlocks some additional character customization options that show the results of her healing.
To be fair, they accepted it because they believed no other alternative was possible.
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Can’t remember his name but there’s a Royal Apothecary who leaves Undercity because he says he doesn’t like the changes she’s been doing, and even says she’s acting different.
EDIT: Argent Apothecary Judkins. that’s him
Their old lives, nor their new, didn’t include purple lighting and silvered skull-patterns. At some point, they demonstrably kind of got into it on their own terms. All those Cata buildings rocking out with their goth out were their choice, and they hardly seem miserable in their demeanor. They gone done went embraced the shadow.
Also, I once again ask: ‘Joyless’? Have you played a lot of Horde content? For a supposedly Joyless existence, all the ones you encounter seem to be having a blast. Military or not. Derek isn’t sure, but he’s not exactly a Forsaken in that sense. The undead Night Elves are as dramatic as living Night Elves, sure, but again I’m talking about the Forsaken as a culture and it’s clash with Calia.
The issue with ‘Calia is a healer for broken souls’ is that it implies the Forsaken are in need of such a force when, contrary to Dev statements, we can log in and look around at how they’re already handling this for themselves in a competent fashion. Be that in terms of loving the new look, counseling troubled new additions, or just generally operating as a functional society. Sylvanas is gone and they’re moping a bit, but they haven’t collapsed.
Again, I’m not opposed to Calia on principle. But if her justification is ‘The Forsaken are crying out to a salve for their pain’, then I just don’t buy it.
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There was never a one size fit all on such a thing however. Most of the Forsaken players interact with are in fact the ones who have acclimated to the life and are functional members of society.
It’s the ones that come back and are absolutely bonkers that’s likely going to need Calia therapy. And we’ve seen undead raised who are not all together there or in severe case of distress. That got kicked to 100 with BfA where it became a plot point.
For every Zelling who more or less comes back with no ill effects, there’s likely a Sira who comes back a monster. I believe Calia is to prevent those ones from being a problem. And if you have to question why they are a problem, Sira came back unable to feel and the only thing that lets her get something close is mass slaughter. That ain’t good lol
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Your gumption is sweet. But let us not give away ground. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
There is a vast middle ground.
But they have forged a new unlife for themselves. Not everyone has the mental fortitude to go through everything they have and rise above it to become something new, or at the very least accept who they are. Others either fall into the painted image of villainy that they are accused of being, or deny their condition all together and see their unlife.
And yes! I would say that being in a society that isn’t actively hostile is good for humans, since humans are social creatures, and while they’re trapped within their own corpses, it doesn’t erode that core trait to them. The Horde is good for the Forsaken, both in a civil sense and as a military alliance.
But good faith acts aren’t going to sell it on an enemy that by all means is fully convinced by their history against one another. This is the enemy that summoned demons, weaponized chemical bombs and was responsible for the destruction of its holds in Hillsbrad, Silverpine and onwards.
Time heals all wounds, but, if there were a window of opportunity for that, it’d be a generation later, when all of the people who were immediately witness to that were dead. Currently, what the Forsaken needs, above all, is military might to protect itself, and it needs a leader with a sound understanding of warfare to make full use of its assets, and Calia doesn’t offer that, nor an in-depth understanding of politics. Peace will only come when the cost to try and tear them down becomes so expensive that it’s no longer worth the effort.
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How? How does that make sense, though? Yes, the Forsaken’s core tenant is individuality, as opposed to being the monolithic Scourge, but the reality that surrounds them is, frankly, bad. They’re not doom and gloom because Hot Topic was having a sale on clothing and they happened to fill their wardrobes with black clothes, they’re doom and gloom because the situation they’re in isn’t so great.
Someone who neither has an understanding in politics or warfare to assume the position of leadership that requires a very specific stripe of person isn’t up to snuff for leadership and I feel that they shouldn’t ham-handedly cram her into that position.
They still certainly have a reason to be together. They depend on each other for survival. The Forsaken as a society exists and continues to exist because of safety in numbers.
I feel, very strongly, that she offers nothing interesting or anything good for the Forsaken story.
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Blight it and everything that has been corrupted by the light!
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/fart on Calia
I’m still hoping Sylvanas takes her out if Calia is dumb enough to step into the portal to the Shadowlands.
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From the perspective of the devs - I have no idea.
From my - because there are forsaken who are “going forward”, kind of like Lilian. Yet, there are also those, who would rather go back. Some accepted who they are and their place in the horde. But not all of them. So, IMO Lilian is representing so far the horde-aligned among the forsaken, and Calia - not-horde-aligned.
Given her actual focus on bridging the living and the undead, I can see her as a leader of a group of forsaken. Just not in the horde. And “it make sense” (kind of) because now is somewhat peaceful time. So, the horde is not really in a position to say “no” to such turn of events.
Yeah, I remember reading Thrall’s phrase “the horde is not the horde without the forsaken”. I am sure that for many this sentiment is mutual. But I’ve seen enough to say that it’s not like that for everyone.
The way I see it, she is the embodiment of their past. And the forsaken should decide, if they want to cling to their past, or move into the future. I just noted, that while most seems fine where they are (in the horde), I am not sure if it can be said about all of them. That IMO could be the next chapter in their story. If that happens, would it be the event filled with mutual respect and understanding, or with the feeling of betrayal and hatred?
But who knows what the devs want.
And my idea is not really my idea (at the time it was not known what the next expansion would be).
/offtop
There are so many odd characters going into Shadowlands (including Calia, but some are just… why) that I saw people wondering if Fiona with caravan will be there too on a tour.
gl hf
It genuinely pisses me off that she’s in the SLs. Either A … she can come and go as she pleases, ruining any potential the PC and peaceniks being trapped in the lands of the dead might have. Or B, she deliberately chose to go into the lands of the dead and is trapped there with us … neglecting the very thing she promised to do. Get to actually know her people … and not just the very recently deceased Alliance batch she’s surrounded herself with.
I get that she is probably trying to find answers to what happened to her child and husband (as she didn’t find them in the ranks for the Forsaken like she hoped), but its frustrating.
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dude, sylvanas was never loyal to the forsaken. she used them. Shes right now a villain. There is no way, she is going to rejoin the forsaken and be apart of the horde. That bridge has long since been burnt.
edit: Maybe pre wrath, but after wrath. it was very clear that she saw the forsaken as arrows to be used or a shield against death.
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You must be new here.
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Have no idea how many times I hear this…ironically mostly from NE and alliance posters. And it was a rhetorical question. I’m sure you heard of them
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Not if she travels there with a Forsaken entourage. Working with them, among them and with daily interactions.
People forget Calia was something that Golden pushed into the story where blizzard actually wanted a different character developed for this.
The issue is blizzard are giving Golden way to much freedom to butcher the story with her characters. They didn’t hurt the story so much when they were just in her Novels but now she is writing for the game it has started to seriously affect the integrity of the story.
It’s not that she is a bad writer, its just she only has one way of writing and can’t adapt to writing characters that don’t fit her Peacnik stereotype. So she makes Characters like Calia which don’t really fit but she then forces then entire narrative to bend around them to make them fit.
Again the primary story of BFA was terrible and not well thought out. Alot of the issues stem from these characters that don’t fit pushing the story along.
I have to hope that they’re role in shadowlands in diminished to not ruin the narrative.
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She is not doing that though. In fact, so far, she hasn’t once been shown or even mentioned interacting with any of the remaining Forsaken reps that still exist; and instead is exclusively interacting with very recently Undead Alliance and Voss. Plainly, its amazing how she can even be considered to be a prospective leader of theirs without even interacting with someone as mellow as Tattersail or Velonara. Let alone characters like Tehd, Belmont, Faranell, and Paxton.
Its all vague “I’m getting to know muy people hur, hur … but lets talk about them Undead NEs and Derek a bit more first. Oh, and doting on Anduin is a must”.
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Blizzard: “Can’t I?”
(I mean, one phrase comes to mind when I read such things.)
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this explains a lot, had no idea who was writing the stories. when i saw her talking to whoever the lady elf in the latest quest i was like this is so cringe, forsaken are supposed to be evil zombies and they’re going to make her the leader of the forsaken.
forsaken are the baddies because the process of death screws them up and makes them crazy - i cannibalize (my horde main is forsaken) the corpses of those i kill and my kind raise dead against their will to procreate. so with calia they’re going to make it into something totally different