Spell Batching and "Leeway"

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
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Blizzard also stated while the original code was updated and turned into the current BFA system.

They found backup data of 1.12 and other things around the same time as it…

While I figure that some data may have eroded and some stuff changed while they updated into the new battle.net system — I still trust Blizzards back up more than random private server PvP videos.

Does it need to be changed with how advanced and how quick things are now a days? Sure, absolutely. It seems to be too great with having our systems responding so quickly.

We got a layering CD in now…

Lets start talking about Leeway’s

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Spell batching, I’m fine with. Leeway, yeah I dunno… it’s also affecting bow/gun range too.

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There’s a 3rd choice for me:

c) try to push what seems to be better for the game regardless of this nonsensical fight between #prochanges and #nochanges.

For instance this leeway stuff is just gamebreaking and absolutely unecessary in 2019.

Also…the way blizz implemented the “fake” spellbatching could use some tunning aswell.

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Then you need a new thread for that, as it no longer is talking about Leeway but talking about protesting Blizzard’s literal stated goal for the game of an authentic wow circa 2006 experience where feasible to accomplish. That’s a completely separate argument. I’m on the side of authentic at all costs. This isn’t “WoW Remastered”, it’s Classic WoW.

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Where in the video am I supposed to see proof that leeway didn’t work like it does on Classic? Most of this video is the Warrior charging and sitting on top of people who don’t know how to move.

I’ve watched up until the point I’m going to link:

That’s lookin’ a lot like some leeway to me. Find a timestamp that proves leeway is not functioning on the beta like it did in Vanilla.

I’m seeing a lot of examples of stuff like this in videos from 2006:

Here’s a good one. Look at this Hamstring:

Remember, both characters need to be moving for leeway to activate. Here’s the leeway range on the beta:

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If you need any ACTUAL footage of how “leeway” looked in classic. Just watch some of Pat’s videos on WoW Classic Movies. Well played Tauren war.
Just because they found some old backups on some dusty IBM they have in the bathroom, doesn’t mean the code integration into the new client is going to be flawless. At the very minimum, they could look at it and they could confirm the mechanic is behaving as intended in the new build and we can move on from there.
Spell batching is what it is a guess. I’m not going to beat a dead horse about it. If you want 2 warriors stunned in the original spot after charge because they luckily hit the button within 400ms of each other, despite how logically flawed that appears… so be it…

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It’s not about being within 400ms of each other, it’s about being in the same 400ms batch on the server.

One could press a button 1ms after the other and wind up in the next batch server-side.

That’s why so many folks saying you can be “skilled” at using batching have no clue what they are talking about unless they have an add-on which ticks the server’s spell batching in real-time which I’m 100% positive the API for that isn’t exposed by Blizz.

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“It’s not about being within 400ms of each other, it’s about being in the same 400ms batch on the server.”… duh. Min tolerance 1ms, max 400ms, its still a 400ms block of time that you’re trying to fall in. There is no skill to it other than trying to react to an opposing ability within a 400ms window. You’re either going to make the batch or not and your distance from the server is also going to come into play from RTT times.

The point being is that it was a clunky mechanic to start with and just because it existed in Vanilla due to technical limitations of the time, doesn’t mean it belongs in WoW Classic (NOT VANILLA) today…

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You actually said within each other:

It’s not “reacting” within a 400ms window. It’s getting lucky and landing in the same window.

The only way you can “react” to the batching window is if you know WHEN the batching occurs and can monitor that polling rate.

You can’t.

So there is no way to “react” within any amount of time since you don’t know when that will occur since the API is not exposed.

Now what, Mr Wizard?

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If they don’t hit in a 400ms window, it will never work, regardless of when the batch window starts and stops.
Here, I’ll make it easy for you.
“Just stop talking. You’re right. You won an online conversation on a post”.

Feel better? Great! Move along…

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I’m helping you understand how it works so you can better educate others, genius.

I don’t like batching, either. There’s no skill involved.

Take the L like an adult and learn from it, then pass the CORRECT info on so you aren’t shot down by folks who want to keep it so they can get lucky.

Savvy?

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Bigthumpper CLAPS EXCITEDLY FOR YOU!!!

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Since it impacts gameplay in a significant way, it absolutely does mean it belongs in Classic WoW. Even if it’s the clunkiest most awkward thing in the game, if it was in Vanilla circa 2006, it belongs in Classic WoW. That’s literally the justification given by Blizzard for Spell Batching, too. Most of us are looking for an authentic WoW circa 2006, it seems, so we agreed with Blizzard.

[ Quotes from “Spell Batching in Classic” blue post ]

We’ve been working to ensure that in WoW Classic, the gameplay of activating spells and effects will not differ from the experience of playing original WoW.

As with many other areas of WoW Classic, authenticity is our primary concern.

(Hilariously, they even call out your specific example)

Two warriors will be able to Charge one another, and the end result will be both warriors standing stunned in each other’s original location.

We think it’ll be fun to see those sorts of things happening again.

So there ya have it, literally the stated goal and intention is to be authentically classic and re-create these gameplay altering mechanics so that everything from PvP to raids play as close to 2006 as possible.

You’re effectively talking about a handful of variables in the code relating the at what minimum movement speed “Leeway” is in effect, how much further the reach is when “Leeway” is active, and maybe a couple of others. Any adjustments made to “Leeway” between now and release are going to be a matter of tweaking some integer values. It’s not some complex logic.

So the only valid arguments to changing “Leeway” are video or some other actual proof that would result in Blizzard lowering or increasing those integer values. Barring actual proof to the contrary, I am comfortable trusting that Blizzard was able to determine authentic values for “Leeway” as is currently implemented.

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Amazing book. TLDR. Thanks

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No worries, I wouldn’t expect anything less from the #catertomypreference crowd. Just ignore things that don’t serve your preference. Carry on :wink:

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I’m fine with spell batching, it does allow some skillful things that I miss from those days. I’m not sure how it’s coded on Classic, but when I played in TBC and WotLK, if you used Scatter Shot in the same batch as Charge or Intercept, the Scatter Shot would walk them back to their original location.

Leeway is just nuts though, I guess that’s why I’m not seeing many Hunter videos/streamers/highlights on the Beta. If you can melee a Hunter from outside of the deadzone while it still counts as being in the deadzone, Hunter is just screwed.

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Hunters are DOA right now. Pets are messed up and there are some other things as well. There are a few streamers on the Beta who have videos. If the don’t fix Leeway, re-roll. You’ll be getting smacked from max range.
There’s a reason they’re not giving more people BETA access, even though BETA is pretty much dead right now, and its not because the game is dropping in 2 months…(allegedly)

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Holy edgelord. With an attitude like this Classic is going to be a solo game for you. Yikes.

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They weren’t left in, they’re being (apparently poorly) emulated.

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They were implemented to simulate the “batching” process in vanilla (sheeping through pummel, two charges hitting at once, etc.). It all seems incredibly mage favored in a time where mage was already the king of BG PvP.

There are a ton of unintended side-affects that make me think it shouldn’t be implemented at all - Attack windows being bigger than melee AoE abilities, dropped flags in WSG showing up at the GY, dropped flags being Returned and Picked up at the same time, and, my favorite, a general lag on everything you do including looting corpses.

I don’t think “authenticity” outweighs all the extreme negatives that come with implementing it.