Spell Batching and "Leeway"


#1

I may be a scooch new to the whole classic conversation and recently stumbled across a few videos on Youtube outlining these mechanics.
I also understand these will be implemented into Classic.
If I understand both of these correctly, they were implemented to accommodate the existing technology of the day, including the internet. Both of which have come a long way in capabilities.

I’m just curious as to why you would leave them in as they seem more of a technical in requirement, rather than an intended mechanic.

@Blizzard, any comment?
Just trying to understand the though process behind leaving them in.


Why are we not talking about Leeway?
#2

Because even though they weren’t intended specifically to provide a change in gameplay, they did cause a change in gameplay. Spell Batching caused very unique situations to be possible (mages sheeping each other simultaneously, heals being able to save a tank even though they technically were killed 200-400ms ago). “Leeway” (still think this is a dumb term) caused attack ranges to be within a specific variance, resulting in a very different experience with/without when doing things like circle strafing.

While they may be “optional” in today’s server performance and connection throughput/reliability, they very much impacted gameplay of Vanilla. This is why, specific to Spell Batching, Blizzard has re-implemented the behavior of Spell Batching to recreate authentic Classic WoW. They have “commented” on this before, when they announced they were intentionally and specifically adding Spell Batching in.

While they have not specifically called out “Leeway” in the same way, it stands to reason it is implemented for the same reasons as Spell Batching.

TLDR: They’re both authentically classic, therefore, they are in Classic WoW.


#3

It is kind of a fringe thing. Like if we can get this why don’t we get wall-jumping. That was also a technical thing but they just call it a bug that they simply left alone for years and years.

People want it for authenticity and because some view it as a high skill pvp tactic, anticipating an enemy ability and trying to get your own move in the same spellbatch to counter.

I find that you consistently CCing eachother and that warriors charging eachother are almost guaranteed to always end up on opposite sides of the map to be ridiculous but w/e. They want us to embrace what was in vanilla no matter what reasons it was in there to begin with.


#4

Ok, so are we to downgrade our internet speeds to match Vanilla WoW speeds as well? You know since we don’t want anything changed and your internet connection impacted gameplay as well back then.
I get the purist mentality but those don’t appear to be “unique situations”, just technical/coding anomalies for game stability. Just my 2 cents.
Thanks for responding.


#5

I have not seen anyone rallying to insist that people take on personal financial burden of acquiring old hardware or downgrading their internet speeds.

That’s pure hyperbole and not at all the same as making code changes to reflect authentically classic mechanics. You know this, but are being intentionally obtuse to serve your personal preferences.

It is entirely reasonable as well as the literal stated goal of Blizzard to make Classic WoW as close as possible to WoW circa 2006.

Article: Restoring History: Creating WoW Classic Panel Recap
Source: Official Blizzard News Site
Date: 2018-11-03

In restoring World of Warcraft Classic, our guiding principle has been to provide an authentic experience. Things might run a bit smoother and the hardware is better, but the game should still look and feel like you’re playing World of Warcraft from 2006. Things like combat equations, original models, and hunter skills are certainly part of that—but things like social dynamics are a part of that too.


#6

Seems that way, hell, I got rank 12 in Vanilla and didn’t even know this stuff was a thing. I Just thought it was BS server lag when I blinked and was still stunned, or counter spelled and still got feared. I guess in reality it was server side lag, in processing sent data through their batching…

@Vendak

I can see, as a Tauren Warrior, why’d you have an issue with Leeway getting removed. I would love warstomping from 15 yards as well…


(Ziryus) #7

They’re leaving in batching to give people the illusion of skill when they get lucky.

But right now in beta it badly needs to be tuned, as you said it was designed for a very different set up that what we have today. And at 400MS it’s just painfully broken in beta.


#8

Ikr, 400ms is a lifetime to counter… just seems clunky to the nth degree.


#9

It provides opportunity for players with elite skill to show you how great they are because there’s no RNG at all in spell batching. Only skill. Like when your heal goes off, you watch the cast finish and everything. But the tank still dies anyway because fatal damage was in the same batch as your heal. That just means the boss was more skilled than you, and you are trash.


#10

Basically this.

“Warts and all.”


(Kolben) #11

Leeway, or the results of it in the Beta is not authentic. I played Tauren Warrior in Vanilla and BC and never experienced being able to hit people from that far away. It was pretty much just the natural melee range for the Tauren model, which is actually just a little bigger (~8 yards) than other races.

Spell batching is definitely authentic. Not having it does change the way more technical aspects of the game are played. PVP and healing rotations for example.


#12

In the absence of well documented tested proof to the contrary (such as an explicit purposeful test from circa 2006, not “Look at this random PvP video. It looks like “Leeway” isn’t a thing!”) I am willing to trust Blizzard’s implementation is based upon their historical reference data. At least, it seems more reasonable to trust that than to hinge a change on anecdotal evidence of a given person’s 15 year old memories.

So while I am not excluding the possibility that “Leeway” may need to be tweaked in its values, I am going to insist on more proof than:


(Kolben) #13

I have well in excess of 300k HKs across multiple characters, two of those being Warriors. Most of those from Vanilla and BC. I never once, was able to hit someone from ~10+ yards away while sitting in roots or chasing them from behind.

If it had worked that way, every Gladiator Warrior would have been a Tauren.

This is not working as intended.


#14

That’s still anecdotal evidence – an individuals’ recollection of how they believe it worked. It’s not proof. It’s never a good idea to treat anecdotes as fact.


(Eaglesgift) #15

I fully support making Classic function as closely as possible to Vanilla. If Blizzard tells me both are working as intended I will accept that. I’ve played the stress tests, I’ve watched some streamers, looks and feels like Vanilla to me.

So called Leeway is generating a lot of noise. I am confident Blizzard is testing how it functions vis-a-vis their original 1.12 client/server test bed. It is in their interest as well as ours to get it right.

As to how different our hardware is today, I for one had DSL, my latency was about 50ms then, it is 50ms now if the stress test is any example. My desktop computer had problems occasionally keeping up with crowded and action packed situations in 2005. This was my graphics card and cpu, not my internet speed.


(Kolben) #16

I linked a video that explains it which as you can see is not an anecdote.


#17

The video demonstrate how “Leeway” currently exists in Classic WoW Beta, while then injecting anecdotes from the youtuber of “I feel this isn’t accurate”. The video provides no useful information beyond a demonstration of how “Leeway” works. Still waiting on historical proof (not anecdotes) of “Leeway” working differently than is currently implemented on Classic WoW Beta.


#18

Bro, the guy is hitting melee attacks like they were ranged attacks. The melee range (which is supposed to be 5yd give or take) outperforms a frost nova range (which is 10yd).

How can you still think thats ok? lolmao

And its seems to be unreliable to blindly trust that blizzard is getting their info from accurate source cse they’ve already stated they dont have the original code anymore.

Btw, you wont find anyone with the level of “historical proof” you seem to be wanting cse it just doest exist. Not even blizzard has it.


(Kolben) #19

Watch any PVP video from Vanilla. If it worked like that in the actual game you would be able to hit people from outside melee range if both players are moving, which never happened.

If leeway had ever been this drastic everyone would know about it.


#20

So we have two choices:

(A) Trust screeching forum goers’ anecdotal experiences and PvP montages where the mechanic isn’t specifically tested and we’re left to assume it supports or doesn’t support a given value.

-OR-

(B) Trust that Blizzard will continue to audit/review the mechanic through the remaining 2 month Beta process and tweak as (or if) needed. That until communicated otherwise, it is reasonable to assume that the creators/designers of WoW will pursue an authentically designed mechanic.

I’ll choose B, every time.