I can’t recall a single spec that is useless in both PvE and PvP. Shadow and Disc are great in PvP and have a niche in raids. Yes most priests will be holy in progression, but you are far from stuck as holy.
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Right, because you were unwilling to deal with the difficulties they created so you left. You could have stuck it out, chances are they would have left eventually, or listened/learned after a few wipes.
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We didnt havr anyone else who COULD TANK
When Classic drops, each and every one of us will look at our first character creation screen and be offered the very same choices. With all you seem to know about how classes play, why don’t you just choose what you want to play and quit trying to force the game to meet your fantasy role needs?
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Correct most people going in now know how bad certain specs are and with that foreknowledge aren’t going to be bait and switched into the same choices.
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Everyone on this board who is suggesting class redesigns, server architecture changes, toggleable models, etc. – you may want to take a look at a calendar. We may be ~11 weeks away from launch, and I just don’t see that stuff happening, even if it could get approved.
If you give a few classes new tools in their toolkit, and paladins can legitimately raid tank or feral can do rogue-like dps, you increase the number of viable class configurations for raids, which makes it somewhat easier for guilds to both recruit and assemble effective raid groups. Since that is now somewhat easier, you have to think about rebalancing raid difficulty to accommodate for the increased simplicity of putting together a successful raid group. Then you have to think about how you might add difficulty back in, design stuff, implement it, test it, etc. Plus there’s potential pvp ramifications or other externalities that need to be addressed. That’s just not happening in the final 80 days.
Maybe people should have actually listened when Blizzard said they don’t want to run two mmos.
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I wouldn’t call modern WoW a MMO, or a RPG.
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Disc priests weren’t unplayable. Every guild usually had 1 disc priest for the divine spirit buff.
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I know that on P-servers, they even use a gimped priest. Meaning, a holy or Disc priest, speccing into Shadowweave but no longer in the Shadow tree. They are there as spot-healers and keeping Shadowweave up.
We might see a few of those around, in raids.
What debate?
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I raided as a disc priest. That spirit buff was pretty awesome, nobody else in the guild could come close my mana Regen. Hah!
That is Vanilla’s biggest flaw, the borked specs. I really like ret on retail and have since LK at least, but I won’t be playing it in Classic. I’m going frost mage because at least there’s a cookie-cutter out there that works for pretty much everything. I’m aware that fire can be better under certain circumstances but at least frost is far from useless. Just gotta pick from what’s available or ice-skate uphill if it suits you.
Classic raids are not melee friendly, it isn’t like retail where they design things relatively neatly for both melee to do and ranged to do, with often assigned mechanics to both.
In classic you can play a mage or lock and just stand there pressing your fireball/shadowbolt for a bit without any extra effort. Target switch? Sometimes, depends on the fight. Need to move? Sometimes.
If you’re a melee in classic a bunch of extra stuff is there for you to deal with and you have to shuffle your feet more.
So if you know that the debate is heated (it’s not, really), then I conclude that you are here solely to inflame it further.
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These threads are always filled with clowns arguing over stupid semantics…
-Saying a class is “viable” doesn’t mean a damn thing if it’s stuck sitting in town on raid nights because no one from anything resembling a respectable guild wants anything to do with them, or their failure spec.
-Saying a class is good outside of raids, and thus fine, is not only nearly universally inaccurate to begin with but hilariously misleading… Raiding in vanilla wasn’t just everything, it was for all intents and purposes, the -only- thing… If you didn’t (or couldn’t) raid, you either tried your hand spending significantly more time than you’d have spent raiding trying your hand on the PvP grind (which is also dominated by teams of people in raid gear) or you simply never actually got good gear and still sucked.
-Arguing over whether specs/builds/etc can even be debated on because of the old talent system is also rather misleading… Cookie cutter builds exist, and certainly existed back then. It’s not like people are going to mystically invent some combination of talents that no one has ever thought of in the past 14 years and suddenly discover that their Enhancement based shaman is suddenly great raid spec (hell even moderately desirable would be a massive improvement for them)
-Finally, as has been pointed out, despite the idea that they SHOULD have considered tweaking things for class damage/utility metrics to make the dumpster tier specs actually worth considering for a raid slot… They’ve already come out and said that yeah, they aren’t deviating from 1.12 class balance… So this thread topic was resurrected why exactly?
I actually agree with you here, but I would point out that far less time than 11 weeks was put into the launch version of Vanilla Ret. That entire spec got revamped right before the game launched, basically.
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I wouldn’t have a problem with touching up weak specs i just don’t want them doing what ziryus and company want (ala wrath and beyond balance) or what blizzard said they would do (retail class design).
If they wanted to go more like bc era balance it wouldn’t bother me much.
This is only a problem in top end guilds. Most guilds can’t sit there and recruit 25 mages rogues and warriors.
Indeed, but as already pointed out earlier here (I think it was actually by you, too) They’ve already said they’re running 1.12 balance so I don’t really see the point of rehashing “settled” issues, when there’s more important things to discuss that haven’t yet been officially “settled”.
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Yeah. If my choice is retail or classic…well I’m choosing classic 100 times out of 100.
if by anything else you meant 40 man man raids then sure. Hybrids are good at other roles in 5 mans as a main tank or support dps.