When m+ first came out in legion, it was a lot of fun. Getting into pug groups for +15-20 keys seemed fast (even as a solo dps) and vast majority of the time, the run would be timed (often +2/3 chests). Sure, there would be some hiccups along the way (bad pulls, too many groups pulled, a wipe on a boss, etc…) but people dint freak out over it and instantly leave the group
But as time wore on, for whatever reason(s), they just got to be more and more of a pain and unpleasant experience.
People bailing at the first hint of trouble.
Bailing because “the run isn’t going to be timed.”
All the unnecessary snide remarks that would lead to unnecessary bickering resulting in a player dropping group and it being ruined for everyone.
People being SO hung up on the meta or perceptions of a class/spec being bad. Things that honestly don’t matter until you start pushing really high-level keys
Nowadays it’s just 15-20+ minutes of “your application to (insert key) has been declined” (either outright or because the group filled) then you have to hope and pray that you have a group of people that will actually complete the run and not ditch somewhere in the middle of it, meaning you just wasted 40-60 minutes plus potions, flasks, food, etc… for… nothing and then starting all over again with the same process
As someone who strictly pugs, on many characters from staying in the 5-6 key range all the way to 3k range, i think ive seen about…3-4 “toxic” behaviors in m+ since Legion
Most of it is silent agreement and a few hi’s and byes
WoW is my favorite MMO because of its combat systems and end-game, but for some reason Blizz has insisted on trying to make the end-game as unpleasant as possible.
What is toxic to you? Being called bad or something of the sort?
Out of the groups that I join it is quite rare for anyone to even say anything and even if they were to people could simply /quit and move on but in most cases they decide to stay and also throw slurs or start the blame war instead of using the tools the game has /ignore.
Anyways people like to make a big deal out of nothing these days.
Dunno where the whole M+ is toxic narrative stem from. My experience in them are like 99% positive even with the limited times I’ve done them this season, not saying there aren’t negative moments in them but ppl let one or two bad experience skewer their perspective.
Again, have you guys not been on GD long? I really shouldn’t have to explain why so many think m+ is such a toxic cesspool. It’s basically a meme at this point. You saw someone else post about examples in this very thread. Remember, we’re talking pugging here.
IDK. All we can really go off is our own anecdotal experience and from what we see others report here. And from those 2 factors, it seems to be a pretty mixed bad and that’s putting it lightly.
At the end of the day, why deal with that palaver when I can just solo a T8 in peace and quiet and at my own comfortable pace?
I honestly think some idiot somewhere just decided the numbers on the key levels were getting too big and wanted to artificially lower them.
Because nobody could have ever envisioned that an infinitely scaling competitive mode would scale to +32 keys. /s
They just need to scrap the whole +10 = +20 thing and go back to what worked. Who cares if the numbers were too big, or the lowest keys didn’t get run very often after the first few weeks? Why does it matter that players grow out of content? It’s called progression and it’s normal.
They explained that the lower levels werent being used for their intended purpose of progression
People were bypassing most of them
2 → 5 → 8 → 11 → 14
5 keys used heavily out of 14 available in that range. So get rid of the ones being skipped at start at the point where everyone actually started progressing
Not as much as negative, that’s true for all online interactions. It’s basic human psyche 101. So we are probably getting skewed to giving more air time to the bad side of m+. Although I think it fair to say it doesn’t take much to push an m+ pug into flopping over into that territory. Whereas with delves, it’s just a lot…simpler. E.g. Why is the key depletion mechanic even a thing in m+? Blizz could go a long way to making m+ a lot less stressful on the playerbase by removing that stupid mechanic.
Delves have certainly allowed me to enjoy the game a lot more at least.
Go back and read my post again, and you’ll see that the word “progression” wasn’t uttered by me. So how in the world can your reading comprehension tell you that my issue is with progression?!?!
Why do you love arguing so much? I remember you from when the last minute tank and healing announcement came out right before launch and you were giddy because the tanks were “being brought down a notch” and how good it would be for the game. How’d that work out for you?? You argue too much.
Fine. I’ll spell it out. The devs of this game often stand their ground when they shouldn’t. They did it in Shadowlands when all of the feedback told them not to go live with the conduit energy and permanent covenant membership systems. They stuck to their guns and nearly destroyed the game.
They did it again this expansion with that last minute bs tank and healing nerf. They’ve done it any number of times throughout this game’s run.
So when you post that a change was made because it didn’t align with the developers intentions, I have to laugh. Because the developers are far more often wrong than they are right.
