I was someone who was #nochanges before Classic out of distrust in Blizzard and not wanting a sweeping change design philosophy. I think after how Blizzard handled Classic so far that I’m open to tweaks now. Classic is the most fun I’ve had with Wow ever, but there are some clear issues we can avoid to make it better. Like bosses being too easy in Classic. Blizz should be open to the idea of adjusting boss difficulty through boss damage buffs, hp buffs, making the mechanics they have significantly less forgiving/less room for error. And if it becomes apparent that this is still the case in TBC, they should be open to boss tuning.
With TBC probably coming, it’s very clear ahead of time that faction exclusive seals are going to make Alliance even less competitive in pvp. Blizz should give both factions both seals and adjust racials. Maybe create community polls so this can be voted on. These changes should be done very carefully, always erring on the side of caution. Enough to at least improve things. Maybe incorporate balance changes that were universally liked in Wrath? (Hardiness was 15% instead of 25%, Seal of the Martyr for Alliance, Every Man for Himself for humans, Escape Artist being instant) They should monitor where the arena meta goes while TBC Classic is happening and make tweaks. Spec’s that are showing up at the bottom of the damage meters should be analyzed and buffed a little bit, whether it could be fixed with a careful flat number increase or adjust mana costs if its a mana efficiency issue, etc. No sweeping redesigns of classes, just make what is already there better. Or if a nerf is a better fix, do that.
I don’t really read the forums so this stuff might have been said many times before, but as someone who loves Classic and wants to avoid very big and very predictable issues ahead of time, I thought that Blizz should hear my feedback, repetitive to forum readers or not.
While this sounds good, I think the only thing blizzard would do (very low chance) would be to remove faction specific seals. Boss tuning would be cool but, as far as I am aware, they don’t want to touch the game data. So I think tuning and class balancing are probably right out the window.
If they are going to buff bosses it NEEDS to be early on before everyone has just walked through all the raids and outgeared theselves for the content anyway (remember TK, SSC and possibly Hyjal were all in the game at launch).
Problem is nobody can agree on what changes are best. A lot of people LIKE easy bosses. They don’t want a challenge. They want LFR. No matter how they tune them, a bunch of people will be pissed. Too easy or too hard. So Blizzard will once again most likely point to #nochanges and stick to that unless a change is absolutely necessary.
The only thing we can hope for is that we start with raids at an early patch difficulty. Because they were nerfed significantly over the course of TBC, and if they release them in their late-stage nerfed state, it’s going to be a joke.
At least one thing is guaranteed. No world buffs. And far fewer buffs available to stack overall. That should help.
You don’t use seal of blood in pvp… It’s a pure PvE change to provide both factions with both seals… IMO I agree that it should be done, but just nitpicking that it isn’t a pvp change =)
Ret also didn’t have any resilience pvp gear before season 3… and yeah that needs a fix.
I would rather have a human Paladin partner in arena over belf any day.
Perception > belf silence for the good ret comps.
Expertises for free allows them to PvP expertises cap basically for cheap. Can’t remember if that was a thing in tbc actually, it was later on, but expertise is actually a great stat for pvp.
Seal of blood is over rated, and really the last thing your healer wants is to heal you because you’re hurting yourself, in TBC arena going OOM is a big deal. Also seal of blood is as emo as it gets, you’re cutting yourself, so emo, get over it.
Humans look better in armor than blood elves.
I kill blood elves for sport.
Did I mention human attack animations are way better?
There are no male blood elves, it’s the only race with two different female models.
No one likes the blood elves except other blood elves, and even they despise each other.
I really enjoy killing blood elves, maybe too much.
True during those seasons, but when blizzard did the rebuild of the class and added resilience to the late gear they also updated the older seasons armor.
So we could go live season 1 with real resilience armor for paladin, and they would have the S3 or S4 crusader strike.
To me, that’s the biggest issue with TBC. I don’t think there is any agreement, with all players wanting THIS. Instead, I think there are different opinions about what TBC “should be”.
We know that Classic was an imperfect copy of an old game, and NOT a re-design and update of that game to fit a 2019-2020 playerbase.
In my opinion, Blizzard didn’t have the time/manpower/money for that re-design, so it was a copy or nothing. They gave us the copy.
TBC is less restricted. Maybe there is time. But Blizzard needs to figure out what version of TBC would be acceptable to all of us.
Every good ret comp has a Rogue, mage or warrior. An extra blanket silence on a 2 min CD is not as strong as getting a mouse over Rep on a rogue who’s gonna get denied the opportunity to open.
There is a very good reason why perception was removed in wrath, because it’s insanely strong when used wisely.
Yes and every comp has a caster in it, which makes the blanket silence 100% more useful. Perception is only good vs rogues, even then it’s not game breaking if the rogue doesn’t open. It was removed not because it was OP, it was removed to buff human racial. They ended up giving humans EMFH which was even more broken…
Every team may have a caster in it, but a ret waddling over to blanket silence what a warrior, mage or rogue can do 10x more frequently and better isn’t worth it unless you’re training the healer alone, well… Where is the enemy DPS? One peel and belf racial is pointless. Bubble? Just made yourself the kill target.
With perception you can easily see rogues and druids at 25 to 30 yards. It’s insanely powerful because of how much an advantage that gives not in individual matchup, but all the free wins you collect vs stealth teams.
That directly impacts MMR bringing up your rating. Most game changing ability man, S3 playing Double Rogue Disc @ 2k, Q’d into a 2350 RMP, all Nelf Priest Rogue, Gnome mage team,I know the players they’re R1 at the time, my server too. perception won me that match, not because I was better, but because I got the open on the rogue basically for free.
Perception is insane when used correctly.
Belf paladins were never an issue, we peeled them before they could ever put enough pressure on our priest.
Humans however were a serious problem, especially human locks.
A belf pally shouldn’t be using the blanket unless he connected with his dps. Also saying “just peel” is easier said than done. Ret/war/rsham is a nightmare 2 fight against if they are any good. Shams can shock/ground any cc, bloodlust, windfury etc its awful, i like to call it the tsg of tbc.
Peeling paladins with rogues and warriors is quite easy. Step / intercept and peel, you can force them to bubble if they want badly to stay in target, but different comps are strong in different encounters for sure. Hunter comps can scatter, locks can pet munch buffs or grounding / tremor, and coil the pala.
With caster comps you can play around the shaman, I wonder if totem stomping macro work, I’ll have to check that out for my lock. I completely forgot about that, thanks for the reminder, because they worked in Vanilla and TBC.
Belf rogue could be nightmares, but I just feel like the belf paladins are overrated.
i didnt read the original topic. i just came here to say that the ideal tbc would be if they took the tbc expansion disk and put it in the computer and copy pasted it into their servers. i could do it for them if they want. changes? why? the game was perfect.
The mana return on arcane torrent isnt all that great even with 3 charges up @ 160 mana per charge it’s basically nothing @480 total mana assuming you have all 3 charges up.
It was buffed in 3.0.2 and made passive. This was when they got EMFH as their activated racial.
https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Perception
Since it’s unlikely that they’ll get 3 stacks (6 minutes) I’ll concede it’s not great. But I can’t count the times I’ve been under 100 mana shy of being able to do something (since I main druid it’s usually shifting back into Bear or Cat) which that little bit of mana would help with. I’ve had similar experiences with my Pally and Seals in PvE.
As I recall as well, Arcane Torrent was able to break stealth and therefore was useful for stopping a Cheap Shot or Pounce opener if used correctly.
You weren’t wrong that going OOM is a big deal, especially in Arena. I don’t find Perception to be terribly useful but that’s a subjective thing and one’s mileage will certainly vary. I can definitely see why you would prefer Perception over Arcane Torrent.
The looming horde imbalance goes much deeper than seal of blood. Even if both factions’ paladins were made equal, it’s not enough. It’s not enough for the simple fact that horde gaining paladins is much more of a game changer than alliance gaining shaman.
That was the passive side of perception, that stayed around after the on use was removed. The part they removed in Cata was the passive +5 detect, it was 1 player level of detection.
Attached link, EMH patch 3.0.2 added in wrath just like I remember.
The on use version in Vanilla and TBC is +50 Detect, that’s 10 player levels, and monstrous, it’s even more powerful when combine with warlock paranoia for a another +30 for a total of +80 detect, or +16 player levels of detection.
You can also stack it with the engineering TBC goggles, and I am. It kidding when I say you can see enemy rogues and Druids in their own starting area when the gate opens if you stack buffs.
By no means am I saying that EMH was bad or anything like that, only that perception was insanely strong. The difference in a rogue v rogue or rogue v Druid is crazy because it allows you to play non sub as a human and still get an opener with a higher damage spec like seal fate or in TBC mutilate or in classic Combat Daggers. These specs are not optimal, just very effective vs certain soft stealth classes when you can have a free game changing opener.
Glad you’ve seen the error of your ways. Honestly, the ‘no changers’, were the worst thing to happen to classic. There is no good reason why they shouldn’t tune raid content to be slightly more difficult for the modern gamer. Nearly all of the no changers believed the game would be super hard to begin with. Obviously, they were wrong. Just like they were wrong about how everyone should roll on PVP servers because that’s the way the game is meant to be played. Majority of players who did that either ended up transferring to pve realms or quitting the game entirely.