Solution: each raid now has 100 bosses
2 Likes
cataclysm kinda had a good solution to this with resilience on pvp gear,
pve gear generally was better for doing damage in pvp but you also took more damage due to lack of resilience so it balanced itself out.
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Resilience was in the game from burning crusade until WoD? Can’t remember which one removed it but it was around a lot longer then cata
Edit:
https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Resilience
Added BC, changed in cata, changed again in MoP, removed in WoD.
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Imo it doesn’t have to be a “pvp stat”. A simple corruption like text on PvP gear that says something like " while in PvP combat, you do x% more dmg/healing and take x% less dmg".
It’s easy to understand, there’s no weird stat stacking interactions. The additive nature will make you want to use pvp but doesn’t total screw “raiders” who derp around in bgs.
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Versatility 100% the same thing as the most recent version of Resilience, the only difference being Resilience was a 3rd secondary stat so every piece of PvP gear was immediately better then PvE gear.
Even if the ilvl was the exact same secondary stats were always just a smidge behind PvE gear in PvE because the Resilience took some of the item stat allotment.
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It’s pretty obvious that Ion doesn’t want PVP gear to be competitive when playing against PVE players. I’m really not sure why he feels this way, but his statement and his actions reinforce that feeling. Once more, I will quote him:
The fact that he says this, but doesn’t force PVE players to participate in PVP makes it pretty clear where he stands, and he is not likely to change his stance. He’s like the Donald Trump of game designers.
It’s disappointing really. I used to enjoy doing PVP on alts because the Raid grind was too much for more than one or two toons. Now I need to raid on any character I want to PVP on, but by the time I’m done with the PVE grind, I simply don’t have time to participate in PVP. As a result, I’m pretty stuck doing PVE only, and I miss out on PVP entirely.
There is one more obstacle to PVP that doesn’t get mentioned very often. It’s the fact that PVP guilds and PVE guilds are typically separate. My character needs to be in a PVE guild to raid, and there is little interest in PVP among the members. I’ve tried communities, but they feel less of a community than a whittled down general chat.
Now, with Covenants, it’s only going to get worse. I will need to choose one Covenant to get gear, but the Covenant probably won’t be very good outside PVE. It’s just another barrier they’re putting in place. Intentional or not, it’s still a barrier.
I really miss the time when I could participate in the entire game. As it is, it’s difficult to keep up with one part of the game.
I sincerely don’t know how you guys manage to compete is Arenas. Where do you get the time to gather the gear so you can be competitive?
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Ion’s statement could very well be referring to special item procs / trinkets from PvE being a viable source of healing/damage in PvP. Doesn’t necessarily mean he wants every PvE item slot to be better.
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We will know for certain when we see what he does with the PVP vendors in Beta. I honestly hope I’m wrong.
Everything he does reinforces my belief that he wants PVE gear to be better in PVP. Why do you think he designed templates the way he did? He could have simply created templates and been done with it. Instead he decided to add an item level component to them. I quit about that time though (because he removed my spec) so I don’t know if the item level scaling had anything to do with templates not working out.
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I could be wrong but the 1-10% bonus scaling was to give you a reason to feel semi-rewarded with PvP power by still doing other activities. If you just always played in the same gear you were wearing while leveling because templates allowed you to ignore any form of gearing, the game in Legion would of felt pretty bland.
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Pretty obvious reason.
He hates PVP, Always has. Was very vocal about it back in the EJ site days, speaks through his Dev decisions now.
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Literally never.
Really? You’ve never heard this? Even on the forums?
…Do you know how to read?
Thanks for your time,
Barespanks
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I mean, Baj says it.
And that’s about the only person I’ve heard harp about it.
It’s everywhere on these forums… especially at the moment, what with all the threads concerning PVP going into SL.
PVPers want something to change going into SL… and PVEers don’t. Why not? It’s really not that hard to figure out: as things currently stand, what with PVE gear being BIS for all content in the game, they have an advantage in PVP. This is what they mean by, “Making things fair” - i.e.: they kill dragons; therefore, they should have an advantage in all content, including PVP (for some reason). It’s an entitled attitude, and it does exist in the PVE community. They do say things like, “We should be able to faceroll everyone!” Others are a little more subtle and make up all sorts of excuses as per why things should remain as they are, or at least close to how things are… but it’s pretty transparent: they want to save a system that benefits them, even if that benefit comes at the expense of others.
Thanks for your time,
Barespanks
6 Likes
I have no problem with gear from PVE being equivalent to gear from PVP. The only time there is issues with this is from trinkets and procs or systems like Azerite. That’s the biggest issue. I’d actually rather have PVE be a viable alternative gear path towards PVP than just PVP alone because that gives me more options for gearing alts as well.
I just don’t care to see more of:
Cut of Death
Ra’Den trinket
485 mythic nzoth/cara gear
Obsidian Claw
ETC
These are items that had a significant impact on PVP but obviously had no better or even equal alternatives, and that is what made it feel bad. I have 0 qualms with being able to get a same ilvl ring from PVP and PVE, or chest, or legs, or whatever for that matter. My only gripe is the procs, on use trinkets, etc that add ‘flavor’.
Well… I’d say it’s a little more than equivalent. There’s a reason people are running around in PVE gear, and no “PVP gear”: that gear is TRASH. All the BIS gear, for ALL CONTENT (PVP included), comes from PVE content at the moment.
Lol. Right now, it’s WAY more than just “A viable alternative”, it’s the ONLY way… unless you’re cool with sub-optimal stats and all.
Nothing is the same. The whole “Gear is gear” philosophy Blizzard has been employing since Legion won’t allow for it, because if “PVP gear” is made the same - is made equally powerful (iLvl, favourable stats, etc.), then you have the progression issue… how do you keep the two gear streams in-line with each other? Thus, “PVP gear” is forced to be trash by comparison. That’s what we get with “Gear is gear.” Who benefits from this state of affairs? Who gets the short end of the stick?
As it stands now, if you want to stand the ghost of a chance in PVP, you MUST PVE - whether you like it or not. Why? Well, because if you don’t, you’re left relying on sub-par “PVP gear” when you’re going toe-to-toe against people kitted out in their BIS (PVE) gear. Enjoy your beating.
There was a time when PVP content rewarded actual PVP gear, and that gear was BIS in PVP content. A lot of us want that to return in some way, shape, or form. The PVEers don’t want that. I wonder why?
Thanks for your time,
Barespanks
3 Likes
I most certainly do. As this gives us the system we have now, where PVE is the best way to gear for PVP.
A system where gear is equivalent means PVP has to be the slowest way to get it, or the gear has to be worse for the same amount of time invested. PVP will never be allowed to be the way to gear for PVE, and Blizzard cannot properly balance the two gearing systems that are designed to meet different needs.
Gear should be separate for PVP and PVE and where people want to crossover, let the gear be worse in the other situation.
If they want to make legendaries PVE, that works for me. I look forward to crafting mine.
But the day to day gearing of my toon for PVP should be from doing PVP.
5 Likes
It’s not as good. But that’s also not true, lock has a handful of haste/mast pieces that come from PVP that are BIS for the haste/mast set which you usually can run into caster cleaves. So there is still a mix.
475 haste/mast belt from pvp to a 475 haste/mast belt from PVE are pretty much the exact same, depending on how stats are allocated by %. They still have the same stat weights.
This rant here doesn’t even make sense. Gear is gear when it has direct alternatives. Like the haste/mastery belt you can get from Temple of Sethralis is equal to the belt I can get from PVP. Both are 475, both have haste mastery with equal stat weights. I clearly stated this.
Some classes, and I’d argue most classes do, but not all. Also depends on what you mean by ghost of a chance because I’ve done like maybe 4-5 mythic runs on this toon this patch and I got gladiator in PVP gear. What you see equipped is what I walk into arena with. This is also my queue with whoever and run whatever I don’t care character.
Long story short, a 475 PVE item with the same stats as a 475 PVP item are the same thing. I’d argue the PVE items are easier to acquire and you have more chances at it since you can get it in mythic raiding AND m+ weekly where as PVP only has the weekly box chance, but that’s a different argument completely.
Why does it matter where the gear comes from if it is equal?
Umm? No it doesn’t mean that.
You’re basically just stating because that is how it has been recently then that is how it HAS TO BE.
That’s true, I am. 4 years is long enough to try to make it work.
I think that two gear systems should meet the needs of the two different activities.
PVE gear is a relatively linear progression from questing gear to dungeons then M+ / raids and then higher M+ and heroic/mtyhic raids.
PVP gear worked really well in WoD when you could rapidly get to honor gear level (no time gating) and then slowly earn conquest over the season. These two stages of gear progression work well because unlike PVE, the same PVP content just gets harder as the season wears on, because your opponents are getting better gear. PVP needs less progression in the same way as PVE. PVP gear in two stages worked so well, especially with the two stages being relatively close together in terms of power and honor gear being earned quite quickly.
PVP gear and PVE gear serve different purposes, and so should their associated systems.
4 Likes