Some of the Horde have forgotten


(Carmageddon) #27

Does that really make a fun narrative for people to play through? Supervillain minion? Cog in a genocidal machine?

Blizzard: “Alliance players get to see one of their major capitals wiped out and will never receive any kind of real justice! And Horde players get an even better story: they get to be witless henchmen for the massacre! And then they get to start killing their own side! Again! Player agency is overrated!”

#factionpride


#28

I think you are missing the forest because the trees are in the way. All stories need drama to make them work. Before you can get redemption, you need a moral or ethical quandary to battle against. Otherwise, the story isn’t so much a story as it is stuff that happens sequentially. So yes, the fun in the narrative is the positions you get put into and the things you have to overcome (at the very least, sub par plots) to get from point A to point B.

History (real history) is filled with these types of situations… where a charismatic leader says, “Do this for honor!” and the underlings happily execute the plan, but along the way, they start questioning that leader and his/her motives, then realize they’ve been on the wrong side (or the right side) of history, only to look for a path to redemption.

So not sure what narrative you’d want in an MMO that is so much different than whatever experiences that inspire the stories we tell over and over and over again in our creative works.


(Kirelle) #29

One of the big issues with this story is that WE ALREADY DID THIS IN MOP. It’s part of the reason a lot of us are having a hard time getting invested in the story. And, IMO, MOP while flawed was better written with the conflict.


(Spuddyc) #30

LMAO this is perfect


#31

I get that… but at this point, seven expansions in, the story cupboard is apparently empty…

Though, in the defense of the story team… pretty much EVERY story ever written has been done before (writers just move the pieces around to make things seem new and interesting).

I still say a really interesting way to go (someday) is to completely eliminate factions. Just make it a free for all world without two main leaders. Instead, break up into as many leaders as can hold a geographic area… though not sure what cohesive story line would hold it all together.


#32

Yes, exactly! Finally, someone understands.


#33

Honor is not the same for everyone. I think you’re mistaking Sylvanas loyalists having an unorthodox sense of honor as them having none at all.

One can see honor in keeping your word, but not see honor in ever showing the enemy sympathy


(Vespero) #34

I’m a freelance assassin.


#35

Um… ok… so, when the quest giver sends you to go pick up an item and returns it, that’s an assassin’s typical work? Fetching random junk to help with the war effort? You’re in the army now buddy…


(Droité) #36

Sylvanas doesn’t believe that ideology in the slightest, but she will use it. The idea that Blind Loyalty to a person who neither believes in its merit towards others (nor would ever return it) is the pinnacle of what it means to be Horde is absurd. You’re essentially condemning an entire population of various peoples (who only joined the Horde for the self preservation of their civilizations) to put “Loyalty” above recognizing a clearly sinking ship in the S.S. Sylvanas.

Not going to happen…


(Feldaran) #37

Listen you. If Sylvanas says that war is peace, then I’mma stick my marshmallow out over the smoldering ruins of Teldrassil and sing Kum Fricking Ba Ya. This is the only chance I’m going to get to enjoy my very narrow play-a-Disney-villain’s-henchman preference in an MMO, and your so-called “basic logic” will not get in the way.


(Syegfryed) #38

this, right here, is where you are wrong

i live and die for the horde, not for a sociopath dead elf

I give my flesh and blood freely to the warchief, not to a banshee who is a illegitimate leader screwing what means to be horde


#39

I think Sylvannas “believes” she is doing what is best for her and by extension, the horde. Her sole motivation is to make sure the Forsaken do not go extinct. They need fresh bodies to continue to exist. The reasons the blizz story team seem to be using are altruistic if not completely deranged… sort of like a schizophrenic believing that killing ALL babies is a sure fire way to prevent satan from returning to earth.

how can i be wrong? that quote is a direct lift from the game dialog.

The warchief’s will is the will of the horde and Sylvannas was named warchief by Voljin before death… she isn’t illegitimate… so no, you’re wrong.


(Droité) #40

Or … the reason she wishes to expand on the Forsaken is to expand on her Bulwark Against the Infinite; and while she may care about “her people” to some degree, that doesn’t change the fact that their primary function is to be her meat-shield against her afterlife. The more of them there are, the bigger her Bulwark. The bigger her Bulwark, the more effective it will function.

While she may take calculated risks with her own salvation, if it ever came down to a choice between them or her … I don’t doubt that she’d choose herself over them without even thinking. You don’t sacrifice yourself for a tool-set, no matter how much meaning or value there may be in it.


(Syegfryed) #41

yeah and she is not a true warchief either, her will is poop, she have no power over anything, thats why you are wrong.


#42

LOL… ok, so you may disagree, but I am not wrong… she was named warchief… even you bent a knee and accepted her as warchief (otherwise, you’d never have made it into the next expansion. She’s your warchief… warts and all.


(Droité) #43

Funnily enough, as far as I’m aware the Bilgewater never swore such an oath to Garrosh (and didn’t do it for his replacements either). I’m free to do what ever the hell I want without restriction, and side with whoever I deem fit. Stubbornly staying on the sinking ship that is Sylvanas (one I’m not convinced isn’t intentionally driving us off a cliff) … ain’t in my best interest.


#44

I can accept that. Of course, in the game, you’re still in the army as far as the questlines go. I think lots of Horde will start peeling off (just as they did when they deemed Garrosh unfit to lead).


(Syegfryed) #45

Named by someone else who was not the previous warchief, because he was tricked into by a unknown evil entity?

yeah no, thats not warchief of the horde


(Lokra) #46

Funny. When I made this character, I don’t remember doing a quest to swear a blood-oath.

In fact, I’ve worked with organizations outside the Horde on multiple occasions, even as the leader of one of my own. By this logic, every class order hall belongs to the Warchief, because the Horde player character led them in Legion, and that oath is very clear in that you are property to be used and disposed of.