Some changes I'd like to see for Frost DK in 10.0

In 10.0 we will need some quality-of-life changes that allow the spec to be more flexible. I absolutely love frost, and it feels very hit or miss in encounters.

  1. Killing Machine - The first thing to be to modified or reworked needs to be Killing Machine. Warlords of Draenor’s design of Killing Machine was a supportive ability and did not have to be played around by stacking large amounts of Crit to make it work. One way is to just have Killing Machine procs be auto attack based non-Crits as it once was in Warlords of Draenor and the past expansions. Once Legion came into play, you changed Killing Machine to only have a chance to proc off a Crit melee auto.

This doesn’t feel good nor rewarding to be forced into stacking Crit for a chance on chance proc to do actual damage with Obliterate. Our new tier set relies on players understanding that without Crit, your 4 piece will not be beneficial as you cannot proc Killing Machine without Crit autos. The best way to deal with this problem would be to bake our Killing Machine procs into our Mastery (Similar to how Enhancement Shaman’s “Stormbringer” in their mastery works), making it scale as the expansion goes on, but also allows for other secondary stats other than crit to be valuable until the very last patch.

  1. Basic Abilities - The next issue I’d like to bring up is our lack of base ability damage. We used to have hard hitting baseline abilities, but expansion after expansion since Legion, we have been hit with changes to the spec that have reduced the damage of our abilities. Instead, we now rely on abilities like Breath to do our best single and AoE damage.

  2. Breath of Sindragosa – Lets be real, this needs to be changed badly, its best at everything and only causes issues with balancing, and a major part in why Frosts base abilities and single target without BoS are so poor now. The current state of Remorseless Winter is something that I would like to see in place of Breath of Sindragosa’s current damage profile. With Remorseless Winter you still need to juggle runes to empower it, and it still feels rewarding to pull off successful Remorseless Winter damage. Reminder, that Remorseless Winter is only doing so well because it has multiple sources of damage amplifications from borrowed power that we will lose in 10.0, and these need to be retained for Frost.

  3. 2H Frost - Should be the only weapon choice so juggling the other specs is easier. Every DK spec can use a 2H, and it would make Balancing easier for Blizzards balance team. I know a lot of people enjoy Dual Wield, and as do I, however, the multiple Runeforges that Dual Wield allows it to use makes Frost difficult to balance. 1H from 2H, but also balancing both DK DPS specs because of the multiple Runeforges allowed on Frost.

  4. Runeforges - Should either be removed or, only have the options slimmed down to a handful. I do not feel as Rune of Razorice is a healthy thing for the game to try to balance the spec around when used on a weapon itself. Rune of the Fallen Crusader is easily one of the best weapon enchants in game, since its release. Runeforges such as the addition Rune of Spellwarding (PVP) and Rune of Unending Thirst (Solo Leveling) have their places in the game. Unfortunately Runes such as the new Rune of Hysteria, which seems like would benefit Breath of Sindragosa, still have no place in the metagame as it looks like when we have a 4 piece, we will replace Razorice with a regular Weapon Enchant from the Auction House (When Dual Wielding). Theres no reason to add all of these extra “flavor” Runeforges when we have so many that do well already.

A flat 15% increased damage of our Frost abilities from Rune of Razorice should be added to the class baseline, or removed completely. Rune of the Fallen Crusader is used by all 3 Specs for a reason, it works well for everyone. If we were to keep Rune of Razorice around to be baseline baked into the spec, then Rune of the Apocalypse (Unholy), and Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle (Blood) should be baseline for our other specs as well.

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I agree with 1-3, the rest really dont hold any weight.

Frost being DW focused has no impact on the balance of the other specs. It does however impact the balance of Frost. It has gotten basically 0 balance passes since launch.

The only thing making Frost 2h only would benefit would be a quality of life thing, but that doesnt warrant the removal of the only real usable 1h dw dps plate wearer. Fury still goes the Titans Fury route. I dont think they should have 1h dps weapon if the only people that would use them are the 2 prot specs.

Frost should stay DW focused. More KM procs = more fun usually. Higher overall damage = more fun usually. Being able to use more options than just Obliteration and avalanche = more fun usually. If you go 2h only you have to redesign and rebalance the entire spec based on it just getting vastly slower.

Also if KM went auto-attack based like it used to be, DW would be even better for it, and haste would just help with that even further. It was like that before. DW has over twice the number of potential auto attacks since DW has a miss chance and 2h doesnt when it comes to auto attacks. Though some might say it doesnt matter, misses dont feel good, and if it wouldnt increase dps that much, why even have misses for DW if it doesnt impact anything?

Runeforges are just stale, they dont need to be removed, just updated. Its been the same runeforges since release with a few times where Cinderglacier would be used maybe.

Cinderglacier
Razorice
Spellbreaking
Spellshattering
Lichbane (absolutely useless)
Swordbreaking
Swordshattering
Stoneskin
Neubian Carapace

Those were the runeforges and only 1 was useless. I dont mind them really. Yeah they are stale now, and you dont even really look at some of them. But I would rather have that then have to pay for weapon enchants all the time when you get a new weapon.

I dont even think BoS needs to be changed, Icecap and Obliteration do. They are boring talents. One just lowers the CD of Pillar of Frost through crits, and the other just gives KM procs during Pillar of Frost. BoS gives you something to actually attempt to keep up. Also if I sim my character right now between Obliteration, BoS, and Icecap, Obliteration actually wins so take that however you want to take it.

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Agree with a lot of that. I think there is room to keep both DW and 2h if they rethink how things like KM procs work. Something that is universal for both weapon types like spending/refreshing runes or spending RP rather than something like Auto attacks which differ quite heavily between them.

I think 1h and 2h should have separate runeforges to assist with any balancing issues. But I also think rune forges need a bit of a rework too. Create some more viable options so there is some room to further customise your build. A runeforge that amplifies AoE damage over ST for example. Or buff the apocalypse rune so we have one that leans into a pet build that is competitive with FC. Personally I’d love to see a frost strike execute runeforge for PvP that works like sanguination.

It’s funny you mentioned gathering Storm talent, because it is currently like a mini brother to BoS. Very similar vibe, but it’s on a shorter CD cycle and honestly feels better to play since you don’t have to wait 2 mins between doing damage. Could see it as a good replacement for BoS tbh.

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Having different Runeforges for 1H vs 2H could solve the Runeforge problem of balancing them possibly. Along with the Changes of Mastery to something more along the lines of how Enhancement Shamans Mastery works. I still do believe that my points 1-3 are very needed for the spec looking towards the future. Killing Machine needs to be changed functionally, it doesn’t feel fun nor rewarding to stack Crit for a KM proc. I do agree with Breath needing not a overall nerf, but Frosts choice in Talents do overall feel poor. Breath needs to feel less powerful overall, and the basic abiliities of Frost need to be a bit more tuned for damage and not have to rely on Breath for damage in Single and AoE profiles.

#1 a little more mobility
#2 better rune generation
#3 stronger buffs to obliterate
#4 better rune forging options
#5 a rework or removal of the bos talent

other then this im enjoying frost dk.

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I feel like this is a good place to start as well. The spec could use more baseline abilities imo. Soul reaper baseline, bring back rune strike as an extra button, make frost strike actually hit hard.

Agreed, I’d rather see it gone for good, but changing it in a way that people who like it can still use it is also not bad.

I like the remorseless winter idea in its place.

Another thing I’d personally like to see is more “death” themed abilities coinciding with frost magic. Shadowfrost abilities, other things of that nature. Undead frost dragons like FWF on a smaller scale, etc.

Still, some nice ideas in there OP.