I agree with the OP - I’d like to see the timer gone. I’m not interested in esports, which is what the timer does with M+. Just let me do the run, and not be penalized if I take my time. As it is now, if I want to run higher keys, it becomes a job. I have to make sure I grind out each dungeon on time, so I can get my raider io score up there. Just not interested, so I run fewer and fewer M+.
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This option is already available in the game its called M0. The timer does not exist, the difficult affixes people expect you to know are not present so you dont have to worry about them. This lets you take your time and run at the speed the group wishes to.
Edit: and if for some reason you wish to address more difficult content and feel restricted on the timer I am sure you can hide it with a piece of tape and go about the run.
The regular, casual M+ would be static level-based rewards, similar to the current system. If you complete the dungeon, the key upgrades by one level.
In the challenge mode style, the base reward is a static level, just like now, so if you deplete the key you get the base level reward. If you use any of the keystone addons, you can see the timers for 2/3 chesting, so if you 2 chest the level of the reward goes up by “x” amount, same with if you 3 chest (but with an even higher level reward). The key upgrades based on the timer; 2 chest = +2, 3 chest = +3, etc.
There’s lots of people out there who prefer a non-rushed mentality for content, and lots of people who shy away from trying mythics because of it. There are people who dabble in M+ but don’t necessarily push their IO score because it doesn’t matter to them on a bigger scale.
There’s also lots of people who enjoy pushing the highest keys they can find, and take pride in having a high IO score.
Both ways are perfectly fine and normal. They just don’t mesh well together, so I always kinda though having a separate system for mythics would be great in appeasing both playstyles.
Sorry, but this is just stupid. Think before you post, thanks. There is no reward for M0. Maybe if there were badges or something like in the past, but there aren’t, so normal mythics are pointless. I enjoy the challenge of M+, just not the timer.
It’s not elitism to you. But the people who don’t care, don’t care.
That’s a weird thing to say…
I mean the people that just want a carry and don’t plan to do anything also don’t care of you don’t take them. They will just bother someone else. Half the effort of playing is finding someone who will take them and just whatever, who cares. Next…
That’s not who one hears from.
The vocal critics are those who want to be part of it. They want to stand shoulder to shoulder with you, but they feel like they can’t because they are stuck in Elo Fell. They need experience, but they can’t get experience at anything except clown-shows and suicide parties and so they just tail-chase that catch 22 trying to find a way to get out.
It looks very much like elitism to them.
Maybe getting rid of the timer or providing a non-timed version might limit the necessity to keep people in the place you imagine they deserve.
But another way to say that is that removing the timer might remove the necessity to be elite.
And why would any elitist want that?
So easy to say when you are a resto druid.
Rogues have utilities and the highest aoe output , most classes cant compare to outlaw rogue therefore they are not needed.
I guess my point though is that you can’t really generalize like that then draw the conclusions your drawing. Yes there are lots of crappy M+ group leaders out there, but there are loads that will take you regardless of your skill level or experience level. Heck I see groups that specifically state “just for completion, no ragers.”
It’s all about expectations. Trying to join a group that expressly states that they’re attempting to push, means they’re going to be selective in who they bring. Their whole goal is to time the key. That means they need everyone on the same playing field as them.
I’m not a resto druid? I’m a balance druid. And my push team has a feral druid… and a brewmaster monk. Sometimes our healer is a mistweaver monk. We’re no where close to the meta.
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So you want a challenge…but…not a challenge?
If you go into say a +10 with all the affixes and can go as slow as you choose then it drops the challenge tremendously.
I can see some people thinking its more challenging but I just dont agree. So totally my opinion I suppose.
Well, they can try to find a good guild or can work they way up with their keys, simple like that. It is not elitism if a random person does not want to run with them.
I don’t see myself as an elitist, but if I am pugging I want someone who is capable of doing the content, that’s it.
I am going to address this specifically as I think you get the wrong idea when I say some specs are ill-designed for M+.
It’s not 5%. It’s actually binary. If you have the ability to deal with the mechanics you’re meta. If you don’t then you aren’t.
Sure, ilvl can circumvent the binary nature by just ignoring mechanics at a M0 run but that’s not exactly the same thing.
Why do people go RDRU instead of RSHM for M+? Well the answer is actually pretty simple. RSHM is a horrible M+ healer. RSHM gains enormous throughput from stacked parties. In M+ stacking party is lethal.
And if that lethality is prominent enough all the tools the RSHM brings to the table can’t make up for it.
Comparatively RSHM has an interrupt RDRU doesn’t have and otherwise it wouldn’t be a problem but RDRU spread throughout and mobility alone more than make up for the interrupt missing. This doesn’t even consider brez, knockback, clone being far superior to hex, etc.
RSHM is simply a stupid choice for M+ when you have an RDRU and the same goes for MW. MW is far better at spread healing than RSHM and has a better amount of mobility and utility, too.
You’re not going to get me here. The more we dig into this the more obvious the problem becomes.
Being “elite” and being “elitist” are not the same thing.
“Removing the necessity to be elite” is another way of saying “make harder content easier but keep the rewards the same so that anyone can get them regardless of skill”. That’s not a good way to design a game and showering people with gear from content that requires zero skill hasn’t been healthy for the game as this expansion has demonstrated.
The players who want to be good and want to get into that content will be good and get into that content.
The players you’re talking about don’t want to be good though. They just want good GEAR. HUGE difference.
If they wanted to be good then they’d start at the lower levels to learn and they would trudge through “clown-shows/suicide parties” just like your so-called “elitists” had to do when they first started out.
Do you think people just logged on with 10 keys? They had to grind those keys and at every level along they way they had to do it correctly and they had to beat the timer.
Then comes along someone who hasn’t put in ANY effort but has high ilevel gear from Warfronts and other nonsense and then they become unhinged when someone won’t invite them to a 10.
I once had someone join my group and tell me “I don’t care about the timer, I just want to get a 10 done for the week”. Instantly removed from my group.
These are the people complaining about timers and elitism and M+ being too hard. They haven’t put in any work and are perfectly OK wrecking your key so they can get what they want in the weekly box.
If you want to reduce elitism then you need to make people learn how to succeed before allowing them to jump into hardmode content and if the game doesn’t do it then things like IO come along to do it for them.
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I feel as if you missed 1 of the main reasons druid currently holds the meta slot. The fact they can both heal solid numbers and throw down mean dps.
Oh there’s a lot of reasons. All of which are valid to bring up. Thanks!
My entire point, is that your argument only holds water if you’re talking about a +20 key and above. Resto shamans are perfectly fine for everything below that. Resto shamans bring a heck of a lot more than hex…
Earth bind totem, earth elemental, short CD interrupt, purge, blood lust, ancestral protection totem, spirit link totem, hex, capacitor totem, tremor totem, wind rush totem.
You bring plenty of utilities. Do you fit into the meta? No. Because all those classes use other utilities that don’t require yours. Guess what… neither do I. Do I care? No. Why? Because the meta only matters if you’re trying to push into the top 1% (if not lower) of players.
For everything below a +20… the ONLY thing holding you back is yourself. And if you’re trying to push higher, then I’ll say the same thing I say to players trying to get into high ranked mythic raid progression… you knew what you were signing up for. Go do the work required to achieve that goal and stop complaining.
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No. Being able to throw out hots and then do damage is pretty much the only reason RDruids are top.
Having brez and stealth is nice but other classes bring those same tools. Resto druids can just flat out do more damage than other healers can and that’s why they’re able to push higher keys.
It has nothing to do with them being better than Resto Shamans who do perfectly fine in M+.
Everybody looks at the very top of the leaderboards to decide what is good or bad when the reality is that 99% of you will never be good enough to where those class differences and this “meta” even matter.
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No, you’re still thinking in the 5% argument. That’s wrong.
If I walk into a M0 at party ilvl of 350 as a RSHM I’m going to have a struggle. I can eventually overpower a M+10 key with gear for sure but that’s not fun and it’s certainly not an example of the spec being fine for M+. And it’s again not just spec but combination of specs. The party comp might just be terrible.
All of which are eclipsed by RDRU and MW toolkit. Again I’ll tell you if the RSHM throughput is based on people standing together and standing together is lethal then it doesn’t matter what RSHM brings to the party. None of it is worth the price you pay in healing.
All those tools are neat but they don’t address the egregious problem with RSHM in M+.
What are you talking about? Of course as a DPS you can be missing the best AoE dps but if you bring other things to the equation then you’re fine. Are you doing +20 keys as feral? If not then I don’t know what you’re getting at. It’s not a solid argument.
You are woefully ignorant of the problem.
Where is this so called elitism in mythic plus? I do 10-15 keys usually a couple a week an have yet to experience this so called elitism. Im just curious
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Thats the point why would i try to push to 20+ if there will be no progression not even saying how hard it will be to get into a group for example as an arms warrior or affliction warlock . The first groups to complete 26+ are 2 rogues+dh/monk , lets look at MDI 2xrogue+ww/dh sometimes udk. Why would I try to do mythic+ as a fire mage if everything tells me my class is useless
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