They are asking for Mythic Raiding level gear, in this thread, as their rewards for solo progression or small man content progression.
As for Runescape, not really a thing. FF14, nope, I play it, you cannot get Nightmare gear solo, good attempt though. Black Desert? Nope You can get Naru gear, yes. But to craft the end all be all, you have to do group content. ESO? Mega nope again… Gw2? No such thing as gear progression.
So, try again.
Nobody has stated ‘mythic raiding level gear’, specifically. Actually. Even me. I’ve stated in multiple places I’m content if it’s slightly behind. BUT the content has to be difficult enough that having gear from other sources doesn’t trivialize it and, as a result, it has to award high enough gear that it enables completion of content that difficult. So the gap can’t be HUGE… but I am perfectly fine if it is slightly behind.
You are going to need to cite this, since I am pretty sure the one thing “they” (we) are saying is “we don’t want M+ ilevel gear.”
We want gear, yes. Mythic Raid-level gear, no.
Right and this is why I stated I don’t know what you consider “endgame gear”, because I already knew you were going to start conflating end-game progression with bis mythic raiding gear. In those games, you most certainly can progress your characters without doing nightmare mode (which you even pointed out yourself), and usually always have a new level or new gear piece you can progress towards even if those items aren’t bis. To suggests otherwise is dishonest.
Also, ive literally not see a single person suggest that you get mythic raiding gear from world quest, so your point makes no sense.
I’ve been holding onto the idea that multiplayer raid content should give the best gear, because it’s always been an MMO about dungeon delving and getting treasure from dragons.
But maybe that stuff is behind us. Maybe the game would be better off just committing to one direction of giving solo players more to do with small scale multiplayer content.
If there is a focus from the developer level, I think it’s steering people to M+ timed runs with the current meta. With the MDI I think also drives that home.
I mean, there’s no reason why we can’t have both solo AND large group content. Nobody wants to LOSE large group content.
And if we want the heirarchy to be solo < dungeon < raid, that’s fine - as long as that heirarchy is only a few ilvls apart in each case. Ya know, to use imaginary numbers for the next tier, solo gives 250, mythic+ gives 257, raiding gives 264. That’s fine.
The reason they have to be close though… is that doing one type of content shouldn’t make the other types pointless. So if I raid and get loot, it shouldn’t mean that solo is trivial because I outgear it so badly. Which would happen if solo was designed around 220 and raiding around 264.
I get it, but I think the reality is that Blizzard doesn’t seem capable of doing this. The solo player content has all been temporary or seemingly half-assed.
Like the poster above said, I think M+ is the focus going forward and it might be worth it to Blizzard to just double down on that and spend some time with solo player content. Unfortunately I think that would be at the expense of raids.
Gearing in this game is so shallow that any time you ask for a progression system in any sort of content that isn’t M+ or Raid, people assume you want M+ or raid gear.
The worst part is that this shallow gearing system is literally the only reward structure the game has for any current content.
I want different rewards for different content and better rewards for completing harder content, but I want a reward path. I want to play this game and go “ooh, piece of candy” not wait in line for a whack at the pinata, before I have to move to the back of the line and wait again.
People seem to default to a position of self-preservation as if offering fun content in the game besides dungeons is going to personally cause them harm. People just want something to do. I mean seriously, I don’t know what you guys do, but when my friends are offline I just log off because there is nothing to do and the game doesn’t offer me anything at that point besides time-gated callings. What other mmo is like this?
Not to be too much of a downer… but if Blizzard isn’t capable of doing better than THIS at least… the game’s gonna die. Because even if we say solo progression specifically isn’t a future for the game, solo CONTENT needs to be better than what we have now or else people are gonna start quitting. Like the current state of non-group gameplay is not acceptable. So if Blizz can’t do better than this, this game is going to die.
I personally don’t believe they’re not capable. I think they’ve just struggled a lot with the pandemic which has resulted in some things not being as well done as normal… and I think the FOUNDATION is there for things to be good. It just… didn’t quite work as intended.
And I think Blizzard is better than they often get credit for… so I think solo content is attainable.
The real problem to me is that people just naturally assume everyone is lazy and wants things for free… it’s not been fun to have to explain over and over again that ‘I don’t want loot to just appear in my account, I want to earn it, just via a different mean than we currently have’ and ‘I want something to do between my 3 hours a week of mythic+ content that is engaging, challenging, and rewarding’.
Like I do want the loot available in solo to be meaningful. And I do want the progression to feel like something worth engaging in even if I do my 3 hours of m+ a week. But I certainly don’t want to have it be the best gear in the game.
I think a lot of people are unhappy with the little they have to show for the hard work they put in, and instead of feeling like they deserve more, they get their kicks by thinking everyone else deserves less.
You’re probably right. Gearing in general right now is pretty rough.
There’s absolutely nothing prestigious about completing a challenge in Shadowlands. I think the closest thing is that maw mount, but seeing it doesn’t make me go “oh, I need to go get that!”
Somewhere along the way, they lost the ability to create the feeling of accomplishments, yet they still succeed really well at creating the challenges.
You’re already near Heroic level raiding gear as is. But due to Mythic+. The next step above that, is Mythic Raiding level.
If you want a challenge, there’s several ways to do this in game now, by simply limiting yourself or putting out self challenges.
As for the game is going to die, come on… People have been saying for over 15 years now… It’s still here. It’s still the game where hardest content grants the best rewards. I doubt it’s going to change anytime soon.
They even made raids quite friendly to enter to see the content, since that was the big gripe before, and well deserved at the same time. LFR now lets you see these raids, and their story first hand, where as before it was impossible if you lacked the skill for even basic raiding.
Back in Vanilla, Wow is going to die if we can’t clear AQ40 or Naxx with just casual friends.
Back in TBC, Wow is going to die if we can’t clear Vashj or Kael or Illidan or Sunwell…
WotLK, Wow is going to die if…
Cata, brings LFR. Cata is going to die if we don’t get as good a gear! And been that way since.
So where should it stop? What’s the right level based on doing stuff you can currently do solo on any class?
People have been doing that too. They get shut down.
Is there anything wrong with a system for currency to where players doing other content can level up their gear to heroic raid ilvl by the end of a patch life?
I’m sure there’s some way to gate it to slow down the progression. It just seems like the more players that go into a new patch with gear capable of keeping up with content the better.
I think it’s more that the people who are already actually doing the available content don’t want yet another chore to do to be effective.
That chore is LFG, AKA Premade Groups.