So, what exactly happened during the Purge of Dalaran?

Well, why not work with that, but instead of his reason for trying to support the Blood Elves and the Horde being based out of a negative experience, aim for something a bit more idealistic? Why couldn’t he choose to align with the Horde and support them out of a desire to help them overcome recent betrayals and abuse by Sylvanas?

Well, where the Bombing of Theramore is concerned, it was one sole individual from the Sunreavers who was a traitor. I don’t think the whole organization should’ve been removed for that. For the Theft of the Divine Bell, however, well… I think Jaina made the wrong choice for the right reasons, if that makes any sense. The Sunreavers represented a threat to the security of Dalaran and the Kirin Tor. That was twice proven by that point. The Purge, however, was not the answer to that problem.

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I mean if you’re going to be neutral then be neutral. I wouldn’t mind if the Kirin Tor came out and just claimed cold-turkey that they’re an alliance-aligned institution like the Silver Covenant. What’s irritating about the Kirin Tor is the sort-of subtle preferential treatment they give to the Alliance.

That’s…like…the opposite of a good decision wtf? I guess that’s just one more bad take from the Blizzard writing room to put on the pile.

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Garrosh should have bombed Dalaran too when he had the chance. Killing as much alliance as possible is always fun. No mercy for any of them. I long for the day we get another faction war story and I can enjoy slaughtering Alliance dogs once more. Starting with the silver covenant traitors who left the high kingdom for a bunch of human boot licking. Vengeance for the sunreavers!

Dalaran was never neutral. They always acted in the favor of the Alliance at any chance they got. Theramore was the proof of that. Aethas is a fool for trusting the Kirin Tor. It appears it would be wise to throw him into a jail somewhere in Silvermoon and torture him until that useless Kirin Tor loyalty is out of his mind.

Gotcha. Well, in that case, a lot of people who had probably never even heard of the Divine Bell were killed or imprisoned for no reason, solely based on the fact that they were Blood Elves. That’s not enough of a reason for your character to join the Horde?

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I agree. The back and forth between neutrality and Alliance is very annoying. Personally, I’d rather Dalaran just went Alliance at this point. I think, between the Blood Elves and Nightborne, the Horde has more than enough magical culture that relying on Dalaran isn’t necessary. It really shouldn’t have been needed when the Blood Elves joined the Horde, but the Nightborne just reinforce it so much more now.

It gets worse, because I’m pretty sure Jaina was chosen to lead the Council of Six at that point ONLY because of a prophecy left behind by Krasus, the red dragon that masqueraded as a human and had been a member of the Council of Six.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Korialstrasz#Tides_of_War

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Well all Blood Elves were purged from the city…from the highest muckity muck Sunreaver down to random Blood Elf shop girls. You could say your family being expelled from the city with nothing but but the clothes on their backs ruined their lives. Maybe they owned a business in Dalaran and lost everything.

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Long story short is that Garrosh used a few members within the Sunreavers to steal the Divine Bell using Dalaran’s portal system. Jaina found out and ordered all Sunreavers and horde members arrested or killed. Unfortunately she chose to use Alliance soldiers and Silver Covenant in carrying out these orders, rather than Dalaran’s guardsmen and they used it as an opportunity take out some grievances on the Sunreavers, most of which had no idea what was actually going on and believed they were being attacked unlawfully. Basically, considering the artifacts in Dalaran, Jaina taking a martial lockdown approach made sense but how she went about it was heavy handed and certain to lead to bloodshed.

However Blizzard has treated it since in such a way that pretty much makes it look like the Horde was in the wrong there and the Alliance was justified. After all, it was the Horde having to convince the Kirin Tor they should be allowed to fight as cannon fodder in for Dalaran in Legion rather than the Kirin Tor having to at all convince the Horde that it could be trusted to remain neutral and respect the horde members that were staying in its city.

It is worth noting that the whole purge was strongly suggested to have been something Garrosh intentionally wanted to happen. If you play the Horde side, Garrosh’s BE lackey from the Reliquary specifically stays behind to hide any trace of Sunreaver involvement but low and behold Jaina finds proof pointing directly at the Sunreavers. The purge effectively stopped the BEs from defecting to the Alliance and forced them back to the Horde. In short Garrosh had the Kirin Tor discover the Horde’s involvement specifically because he suspected it would cause Jaina to crack down hard on the BEs and destroy the diplomacy going on between Silvermoon and Stormwind.

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THe horde is always wrong, I like how they are JAINA HELPED THE ALLIANCE, like NO, she helped keep a super weapon from being used in a war, and I alliance didnt use it thats what it was in darnassus, which WAS far away from any front at that point

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Not to mention that both the Alliance and Horde PCs are expected to side with Jaina against an angry Sunreaver while rescuing Baine.

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Here is some info that I don’t think was covered.

There seems to be some missing context in darnassus. Early datamining text or dialog implied that the horde used the bell in darnassus before they left.

Used it? What does that mean? What did it do?

You know that you aren’t a blood elf in real life? I think you need to take a step back and separate fiction from reality.

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I remember dialog or something, years ago. Jaina was reacting to the horde using the bell in darnassus. It never made it out of alpha state. In fact, originally, anduin died in 5.1

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It does seem at an early point that the bell would have been rung in Darnassus, causing some kind of loss of life and damage, and the Purge was a response to that. Why it was changed, who knows. I’d argue that it being rung takes a lot of the grey out of it and I think they wanted it to be a genuinely uncomfortable event.

Unfortunately they did that thing where Alliance side see things that are in their favor and Horde only see things in their favor, so unless you’re playing both sides you’re not getting a full picture.

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Okay OP, since you asked an honest question, I’m going to lay it out for you in as unbiased a way as possible, which is far and away too hard for many people on this forum. This will be long so bear with me.

The Purge of Dalaran is essentially the only actually morally grey moment in WoW’s history, and whether by accident or on purpose, the writers thusly made it quite complex in terms of various factors. The backdrop is what can essentially be called a war campaign for both the Horde and the Alliance, wherein they progressed through a chain of quests dealing with the other faction in Pandaria and abroad, centered around a powerful mogu artifact called the Divine Bell.

The Divine Bell essentially has the ability to create supersoldiers when rung, and seemingly had no limit to the number of beings it could empower. At this time in the game, Garrosh had wiped Theramore off the map using a mana bomb, a weapon of horrific destructive potential, using the help of a Sunreaver, or Sunreavers, to make it. Dalaran had already been present at Theramore, because they had learned the Focusing Iris was taken, and it’s their express purpose to try and make sure the factions don’t use big scary world ending magic. In fact, it was Aethas himself who was the tiebreaker on the council vote as to whether or not to go help Theramore and evac people if need be.

The quest campaign takes place roughly six months after the destruction of Theramore, and Dalaran has been basically watching for months and not really intervening at all, despite Jaina being the one in charge. At this point, it’s become clear that of the two factions, the Horde under Garrosh was far more likely to use the Divine Bell, and annihilation was on the table if Garrosh was to get it.

Now, to the Purge itself, the general concept is this. Dalaran had given the Divine Bell when found to the Alliance, because it needed a certain thing to activate it, that the Horde had. One side had the way to activate it, the other side had the item itself, neutralizing it as a threat. Using Dalaran’s portal network, a Sunreaver and Horde agents stole the Bell back, and thus gave it to Garrosh.

Here’s the thing, people will argue about neutrality this and neutrality that, but really? Dalaran’s neutrality is not the issue at hand.

Garrosh had been shown to already absolutely be willing to wipe out cities using powerful magic artifacts. This is not in question. Jaina had absolute knowledge that it was a Sunreaver who helped, and no idea how many agents were in Dalaran willing to also help. We operate on a meta knowledge level, but as far as anyone knew, total destruction was on the table. Thus the actual Purge was locking down the city of any blood elf, because there simply wasn’t time to waste, or to do it in a measured way.

This is why the Purge is the only morally grey event in WoW, because there was no correct action to take. To wait and see would have possibly meant everyone on Dalaran being wiped out, but the Purge itself was very much not a good thing either. The characters involved were essentially backed into a corner on all fronts, and thus made a decision that wasn’t justified in hindsight.

People often miss a few things because there’s that inherent bias for their faction, as well as a very odd perennial dislike of Jaina that pre-dates MoP and started in Wrath. One, the only reason the Purge didn’t become totally justified later on was because Anduin intervened and destroyed the Bell in a sacrificial Hail Mary. Without him doing that, Garrosh explicitly would have won the war and more than likely thousands, if not tens of thousands would have been wiped out. Two, both the Mana Bomb and the theft of the Divine Bell happened under Lor’themar’s watch, and yet he seems to never get flack for it. Love him as a character, but I’ve found this strange, because he completely drops the ball twice and nearly causes catastrophe, but he just flies under the radar.

As for the effects? Many on this forum with overstate, or understate them, but the truth is we really have no indication it was as catastrophic or horrible as many claim. Unlike some, I’m fully convinced that some blood elves did die, there’s no question there, but the numbers are difficult to surmise, as the Sunreavers and all the named blood elf NPCs are immediately wanting to come back, without question. All the blood elf NPCs in Wrath Dalaran are the same as Legion Dalaran, which makes canon deaths difficult to figure, and also puts a damper on how bad it might have been since they don’t seem to hold any grudges at all. We do have, in BfA, one single instance of some Sunreavers attacking Jaina and calling her a murderer, but that seems to be more a reaching attempt by the writers to try and at some ‘greyness’ to everything. “Hey guys we know we’re making the Horde look really villainous this xpac, but uh… remember when Jaina did something bad???” Lor’themar also works with Jaina the most readily out of all of the Horde leaders, and given how few blood elves are left, one would think that he’d be far more vengeful of any marked number had died.

Also immediately after being let in another group of blood elves betrayed Dalaran to work for the Legion but we don’t talk about that…

TL;DR: WoW players want morally grey and nuanced writing but can’t actually handle it when they get it.

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this isnt the rp forums

Point of correction. The night elves found the bell first, and took it to Darnassas. Dalaran was enlisted to set up wards around it to keep it safe.

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If I’m not wrong, it’s one specific Sunreaver, who turned out to be more a loyalist to Garrosh. Although Aethas did recommend him to help, so did Rhonin. So I think the end result of that affair was “one particular Sunreaver is to blame”. I think the Sunreavers are more or less a quasi-independent set of blood elves, so Lor’themar doesn’t have total jurisdiction over them, it’s mainly in Aethas’ hands.

Since it was bugged at the time, Aethas was meant to actually see you with the bell, and is threatened into staying quiet or seeing Quel’thalas destroyed. So he’s stuck between Garrosh (who we know has zero qualms about razing things to the ground in the name of victory) and Jaina (who is rightfully angry about Theramore, but did concede that the Sunreavers are allowed in Dalaran), and so he decided to risk Jaina’s ire.

It is actually a quite well put together set of events. Unfortunately for some reason in all the novels Jaina kept “healing” from her anger but the games never included that until BfA, which made her really flip-floppy to fans.

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Pretty sure the And claimed it themselves. Dalaran didn’t give it to them.

She only had knowledge Dalaran’s portals were used. One can reasonably infer it was a Sunreaver, but not absolute knowledge.

Simply untrue. This just is not expressed in the quests. There never a given concern that Dalaran was at risk of a cataclysmic attack or that time wasn’t allowable to investigate further.

But say that was true. Say there was no time. That something like the Japanese internment camps were cool. This still doesn’t excuse the killings because these mages possess numerous non-lethal methods of subduing people. Sleep spells, polymorph, freezing them safely like Aethas, mind control, magic boxes like the Blues.

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This. Lor’themar doesn’t get blamed for traitorous Sunreavers because they don’t work for him and aren’t really under his leadership beyond being private citizens of Quel’Thalas. The Sunreavers are first and foremost a Dalaran organization, and Aethas was a member of the Council of Six at the time of the Purge. Rommath’s involvement in the response team that evacuates Sunreavers was as an outsider intervening to save fellow Sin’dorei, not as someone who had any involvement in what had happened up to that point.

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