It appears that they’re bottom tier for PvP. M+ is going to be 2 ranged and a rogue. I’m sure raids will take at least 1 DH, but they won’t be topping meters with their low single target.
It’s times like this that I wish the class had more than 2 specs.
None, at least not at the start of expansion if it comes out like is right now in beta.
No Soulbind will be complete until the first raid is over (i heard 4 months until complit), and we still don’t know how the conduit ranks will be obtained. There is no way to plan “corrections” to our weaknesses, or “enhancements” to our strengths (none) in the short term, the only thing we can plan on is the first legendary and covenat class ability.
Why? Because you watched a subjective video on YouTube?
DH’s are fine. Numbers are still being tuned. They’ve retained all their utility from BFA and now have an aoe MS, which will likely increase their comp options. We also have significantly higher burst
Damage nerfed, damage mitigation nerfed, and self healing nerf. Outside of 2s, DH wasn’t all that amazing to begin with.
So why create this thread at all? If DH’s have never been meta before, why question their place now? Seems like a low-effort troll to me
Because it’s disappointing to see how nerfed they are going to be based off of forum crying rather than actual performance. I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove or get at, other intentionally being oppositional as usual.
I’m confused. Your sources for their low performance are crying on the forums, so you turn to the… forums? To answer your questions regarding their performance?
See the circular logic here?
Saying “nerf DH they’re OP” without data or numbers to back it up, is forum crying.
Posting actual numbers such as dps meters, w/l ratios, and reading patch notes isn’t just forum whining.
But you’re going to argue to opposite, because that’s just what you do. It’s what you always do.
In PvP, we were broken.
A 100% dodge being baked into blade dance was broken. It should’ve always been an active ability we could press. The nerf was fair, though handled incorrectly.
Our leech was also broken, though in reality, it wasn’t hit as hard. Our baseline leech was fairly nerfed, but in demonic, we still have a reasonable amount. Yes, demonic is now only 6 seconds, but no melee class should have that amount of passive healing from doing damage. Instead we should have the option to take an active healing ability. Otherwise, we still have our mobility and great offensive pressure and utility.
We now have a legendary that procs our darkness at 35 % health. This is a godsend in pvp. We are going to be fine. We have an aoe ms. We will be fine.
There’s a lot of dumb on the forums.
When people create threads like these, they’re very rarely in the interest of having a meaningful conversation.
DH’s still have insane aoe burst. In fact, with UBC, I’d argue it’s higher. EB will also provide higher aoe damage potential, so we will still have our place in M+.
Why take any beta numbers as guaranteed when it comes to determining viability in the meta? This is the point of beta - to correct any severe imbalances.
DH’s are going to be fine. As to who will be the meta, it’s impossible to determine until we know what numbers will be going live.
These speculative threads don’t serve any helpful purpose but to scare people over temporary numbers.
What people should be discussing is the playability of a class and spec rather than its viability based on temporary numbers.
Doesn’t Supatease consider havoc an a tier spec in arena? Before tuning at least.
I don’t know if he did an arena tier video, but as far as melee class engagement goes, havoc dh’s were at the very bottom tier haha
The problem I have with DH is their base toolkit is literally 2 spells for ST and 2spells for AoE and 1 for everything.
We have no AoE fury generation (almost all classes that require generation has 1 generator and spender for ST and AoE)
And the concept of talents seem wonky on DH.
If I create a fresh class of DH and not select any talents, it’s so bad when I compare it to other classes. Let’s take rogue for example, without any talents an Assasin rogue still has to keep up his DoTs, make a conscious decision on whether to refresh his DoTs on a mob based on its HP.
A class should be able to function bare bones without talents first. Then the talents are supposed to bolster parts of the gameplay.
Now if we look at talents, DHs NEED to take unbound chaos, and having it smash at the end of fel rush feels just bad to me, I would rather they keep it smash at the start of the rush or at the middle, keeping it at the end means we have to either vengeful retreat or walk out to use it. (Making momentum a really viable choice with UB) but that’s a can of worms I don’t want to touch at the moment. Cycle of hatred being on the same row as First Blood. Oooo this one irks me the most. If we want our ST to have blade dance in it we need to use First Blood, but The Eye beam reduction on Cycle of Hatred is honestly quite strong. I was playing around on PTR with cycle of hatred and it seems with around 40% haste we can eye beam quite abit, and with demonic I was out of demon form at the most 10 seconds.
What they should do is make more skills to be useable without talents, Glaive tempest and Fel Barrage are both talents and feel awful to pick compared to the other choices on the same row.
Maybe make Glaive Tempest baseline and a talent which makes it put a bleed on enemies it hits.
Make Cycle of Hatred reduce the Cooldown by 1 second and bake it into a Rank.
Make first blood a baseline but remove the damage bonus.
Add totally new skills on those rows.
So many things can be done, but blizz took the easiest way possible.
Yeah I created a video like 45 minutes making these exact comparisons, though for a subtlety rogue
Oh PLEASE DONT TALK ABOUT SUB. Haha that’s gonna be my new main, imma ditch this dumpster truck of a class until next expac when they do a Spriest kind of rework on DH
Also, let me check that vid out.
to be fair this is a pvp talent , not baseline. so youll have to give up a decent pvp talent to get it.
still pretty cool tho, will be fun for 2s i think
Haha sure I don’t have the video link cause I’m out of house but it’s in a thread in these forums. “Video on havoc problems in shadowlands”
Pretty sure i’ll meta in all content tbh.
Yeah the reworks you suggest sound awesome.
Right now we are a shell. Blizz just has to add some depth. Starting with your fel cleave idea. The class should function bare bones.
Yeah, agreed. When you just take a look at the class it’s really a shame.
Demon hunters are one of the most fundamental classes in terms of lore in the Warcraft universe. They deserve to be a class more than most others, though people will be offended at that statement.
They should’ve been introduced in TBC. Even blizzard admitted it. It’s a shame they weren’t, cause it’s unlikely demon hunters would be anywhere near this situation if they had been
I’m planning to make friends with warlocks for 3v3.
Necrolord Affliction + Venthyr Havoc as the new shadowcleave.