So warriors are just screwed for all of WOTLK?

[Boolòssus-pagle]

At this point I firmly believe people that take PvE seriously are gluttons for punishment.

[Noxranna-bloodsail-buccaneers]

I wouldn’t know - Feral is one of my least liked specs of any class in the game. Probably only beat by Affliction

[Härland-grobbulus]

@Boolòssus-pagle

At this point I firmly believe people that take Wrath seriously are gluttons for punishment

Fixed it for ya

[Achille-old-blanchy]

@Skorgë-windseeker

If you enjoy playing your class why does it matter if you are number one?

For some people being number one on the damage meter is what make the game fun to them, they like to perform and be among the best I guess.

[Motor-old-blanchy]

How are you going to reroll if they buff Wars? How are they going to sell boosts if you don’t reroll?

[Abralan-benediction]

Warrior has low utility. When a Feral can do 1500+ more dps than you on a sim but also be able to battle rez, innervate, clear all roots and snares, etc, it feels pretty bad and blatantly unbalanced.

My feral with 400 less gear score than my warrior does more dps than my warrior… does that really make sense?

[Eggoknee-benediction]

TIL being top 5 dps is now unplayable and underperforming

anywho ret and feral should have never gotten a buff

[Skorgë-windseeker]

@Achille-old-blanchy

For some people being number one on the damage meter is what make the game fun to them, they like to perform and be among the best I guess.

Then aim to be the best warrior and not the best overall. It’s even more of a challenge and imo way bigger bragging rights.

[Darkbwandon-ashkandi]

P1: You don’t need buffs, you’ll scale up to #1 in P4
P2: Hey I noticed that paladins only spec that isn’t #1 is doing mid dmg. Here’s a buff. Don’t worry warriors you’ll be #1 S tier in P4.
P3: hmm ARP doesn’t seem to benefit warriors as much as it did in 2009, but we’re not trying to tune all the classes for balance.
P4: lolololol

[Jeynar-mannoroth]

@Drain-windseeker

This is the problem with short sighted custom balance changes.

To be fair here, the short sighted custom balance changes came after the short sighted idea of running all of classic expansions on the final balancing patch.

Without Tiny Abonomation in a Jar and Shadowmourne rets are… not looking great still.

[Jeynar-mannoroth]

@Woopee-mankrik

How does Judgment count as a melee attack, not once but twice?

Judgement has been a “ranged melee attack” for virtually ever.

Don’t ask why, it just has.

[Skorgë-windseeker]

It’s completely reasonable to be voice your opinions about the state of your favorite class. But I think class design and proper function trumps “well I have to work a little harder to be top dps” is a lousy complaint. It’s good to have some group diversity, the classic 18 warrior raid group was a bad design and warriors aren’t even the bottom of the barrel they just aren’t gonna be number one with minimal effort. Be a warrior fight through your pain.

[Smeetologist-pagle]

@Woopee-mankrik

also wtf is Tiny Abomination in a Jar? How does Judgment count as a melee attack, not once but twice?

Tiny abomination in a jar was bugged throughout wrath to trigger on ANYTHING coded as a melee hit, regardless of if it is supposed to proc things or not.

Paladins attacks are mostly on melee hit. (Exorcism, consecration, and holy wrath being the exceptions)

Judgement uses melee hit in wrath, so under the hood it is considered a melee attack. The debuff it applies is also coded that way, thus TaJ counts it twice.

Ret seals are also on melee hit, and seal of vengeance does two things per hit. It applies a DoT AND if that DoT is stacked to 5, it does an extra hit. Both of those things count for TaJ.

Also righteous vengeance counts from our crits…

So on a typical melee swing, a ret has up to 3 or 4 (if crusader strike or divine storm single target) chances to get motes…

This gets fixed in cataclysm (it’ll only trigger on things that are melee hits AND should be capable of proccing things), but it is accurate to how the trinket behaved in wrath.

Do keep in mind though, that even with the buffs, and tiny abom being this absurd for the spec AND our disgusting 2pc bonus… Rets are still a mid tier DPS without shadowmourne, and with it, still aren’t the best DPS… So they kind of mirror warrior performance in ICC, which seems fine.

Without the buffs, rets would have needed all of that to reach mid tier DPS.

[Woopee-mankrik]

@Smeetologist-pagle

Ret seals are also on melee hit, and seal of vengeance does two things per hit. It applies a DoT AND if that DoT is stacked to 5, it does an extra hit. Both of those things count for TaJ.

It’s funny because that’s almost exactly how deadly poison works, but deadly poison is considered a spell and doesn’t proc TAJ lol

[Jeynar-mannoroth]

@Woopee-mankrik

but deadly poison is considered a spell and doesn’t proc TAJ lol

If memory serves (it probably doesn’t, I am an old man after all) it actually did when ICC first launched, but that part was fixed, ret parts weren’t till Cataclysm prepatch.

[Smeetologist-pagle]

Yep. TaJ originally did also trigger on spells like poisons, but that got hotfixed in wrath.

It also weakened it for ret, as we lost procs from vindication there. (Possibly also our actual spells)

The wrath version of TaJ was just coded massively in rets favor.

It’s kind of silly that rets aren’t the undisputed best DPS with how strong this trinket is for us… The thing is just as impactful as shadowmourne.

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

@Smeetologist-pagle

The thing is just as impactful as shadowmourne

So its a hunter weapon, got it

[Smeetologist-pagle]

Well, duh, everything but maces are hunter weapons.

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

@Smeetologist-pagle

everything but maces are hunter weapons.

I use maces to play fetch with my pets

[Onecoldone-mankrik]

Would have been nice to have just given the “as it was then” experience, the 1 st time around. Everyone knew what to expect, but this dev team just couldn’t help themselves.