Oh, absolutely Yogg and C'Thun are still alive. It's silly to believe we did anything but kill an avatar for both.10/31/2018 11:23 AMPosted by DroitéI'm still not convinced that with Med'an being retconned that ether C'thun or Yogg are out of the picture either.
10/31/2018 11:29 AMPosted by GrandbladeOh, absolutely Yogg and C'Thun are still alive. It's silly to believe we did anything but kill an avatar for both.10/31/2018 11:23 AMPosted by DroitéI'm still not convinced that with Med'an being retconned that ether C'thun or Yogg are out of the picture either.
Weirdly ... I've been thinking for a while that IF one of these buggers is going to get released (in full, not just an avatar) ... it might actually be better for us if they ALL get released. If Xal is right in her assessment, that only one of them will be allowed to consume Azeroth (and corrupt it completely), then having 3 of those ugly buggers waging war against eachother might actually save our stupid butts. Rather than just N'Zoth rising up, unopposed, and him winning by default.
I’m actually more inclined to believe that it was a dread lord. They are master manipulators after all, and what better way to manipulate than to install an incredibly controversial leader both with the Alliance AND Horde into a position of great power. One that was also u dear manipulation by a dread lord before and who’s hubris is easy to take advantage of.
10/31/2018 11:51 AMPosted by PyrogarI’m actually more inclined to believe that it was a dread lord. They are master manipulators after all, and what better way to manipulate than to install an incredibly controversial leader both with the Alliance AND Horde into a position of great power. One that was also u dear manipulation by a dread lord before and who’s hubris is easy to take advantage of.
Thats a good point, it is likely that at least one prominent dread-lord is on the field somewhere in this game of Faction Wars; especially since they wouldn't be bound by Sargeras anymore so who knows what they could get up to and what their motives are. However, have they ever had the ability to deny someone a connection to their gods (the Loa), like they did with Vol'jin when they ensured he'd get killed by that trash mob? For that matter, have they ever shown the ability to outright interfere with the afterlife the soul of a person was sent to (outside of the scourge)?
Even Eyir says she didn't have the "mojo" to pull of that kind of stunt I believe.
10/31/2018 11:29 AMPosted by GrandbladeOh, absolutely Yogg and C'Thun are still alive. It's silly to believe we did anything but kill an avatar for both.10/31/2018 11:23 AMPosted by DroitéI'm still not convinced that with Med'an being retconned that ether C'thun or Yogg are out of the picture either.
Y'shaarj isn't even dead by what mortals would call 'dead' really, or any old god to speak of. Their corporeal forms can be ripped into a billion pieces but it's hard to kill something that was never living to start with. If Sha just. all of the sudden, started vomiting out all over Pandaria tomorrow with the Azerite infused Mantid smashing against the great wall, I wouldn't so much as blink considering the kind of influence he was able to exert over Orgrimmar from beyond the grave.
For better or worse(And there's a case that with the 'curse' of flesh, actually for the better.) The Old Gods have become part of this planet, may as well learn to live with them.
My personal theory is infinite flight involvement, mostly because BfA makes even less sense without some sort of future vision. Assuming everything is going according to plan for it, it needed both the Legion to lose and for Sylvanas to at least set things in motion quickly enough to get the Horde to Zandalar to stop G'Huun from breaking out and destroying everything. (G'Huun can't be on the same side as this entity, since killing Talanji would have been the best course of action - kill her and no one comes to assist Zandalar). If Azerite is somehow worked into it's plans, it needs an even more specific victory, which entails setting up events such that the wound happens. So, assuming no stupidly high amount of coincidences, time power shenanigans are involved.
This would also explain things like the Bronze Flight helping the Horde recruit Mag'Har orcs and Elisande not seeing any paths towards beating the Legion.
This would also explain things like the Bronze Flight helping the Horde recruit Mag'Har orcs and Elisande not seeing any paths towards beating the Legion.
I am pretty sure it's N'Zoth. They need to build him up and make him feel like a threat, and so far he's been absent from the story. What better what to tie him into the faction war than to make him the ultimate cause of it?
"But the Void hates Sylvanas!" I hear you shout at your computer screen, as if I were in the room with you. "Surely they would not do something to benefit her!"
Here's the thing. Being warchief is not benefiting Sylvanas at all. Not only is her paranoia whittling down both sides even further after we suffered major losses against the Legion, she is also steadily turning the entire world against her.
Sylvanas didn't want to be warchief. She wanted to remain in the shadows where she could do terrible things without drawing too much attention to herself. But now she IS out in the open. She's calling the shots and trying to lead the Horde as if we were all Forsaken.
What does Anduin consider the single war goal of the Alliance in this conflict? Sylvanas being taken down.
What has her actions driven Saurfang to? Turning against her and likely starting a rebellion to take her down.
She's made herself the single most hated person on Azeroth with both sides gunning for her death. By making Sylvanas warchief N'Zoth has all but guaranteed that Sylvanas will die.
"But the Void hates Sylvanas!" I hear you shout at your computer screen, as if I were in the room with you. "Surely they would not do something to benefit her!"
Here's the thing. Being warchief is not benefiting Sylvanas at all. Not only is her paranoia whittling down both sides even further after we suffered major losses against the Legion, she is also steadily turning the entire world against her.
Sylvanas didn't want to be warchief. She wanted to remain in the shadows where she could do terrible things without drawing too much attention to herself. But now she IS out in the open. She's calling the shots and trying to lead the Horde as if we were all Forsaken.
What does Anduin consider the single war goal of the Alliance in this conflict? Sylvanas being taken down.
What has her actions driven Saurfang to? Turning against her and likely starting a rebellion to take her down.
She's made herself the single most hated person on Azeroth with both sides gunning for her death. By making Sylvanas warchief N'Zoth has all but guaranteed that Sylvanas will die.
hots malganis has an interaction with vol'jin about whispering to him.
The Voice that whispered to him was an entity of the shadowlands, not an old god.
Do you mean Zul'jin?10/31/2018 05:23 PMPosted by Trenghots malganis has an interaction with vol'jin about whispering to him.
Zul'jin: Ah, the Loa warn us about things like you.
Mal'Ganis: What makes you think we weren't your "loa" to begin with?
Nothing confirmed about WoW itself, but the idea of a dreadlord masquerading as a Loa is an interesting one, especially if said dreadlord's persona ends up being integral to a troll society.
Mal'ganis is still around and also I have been thinking of Detheroc still disguised as Shaw, didn't they have to kill a person to replace them and we also know Dreadlords have the ability to create doubles/clones/shades whatever you want to call it.
An Old God being behind the whispers to Vol'jin to appoint Sylvanas would make very little sense with the way the Void freaked out around her in the Three Sisters comic.
The motivations of the Void likely are not synonymous with those of the Azerothian Old Gods. They are not a uniform force, having warred with each other before the Titans showed up. Plus, we don't known if the Void was freaking out because it legitimately saw Sylvanas as a threat, or it was just trying to play off Alleria's paranoia to drive her closer to breaking.10/31/2018 06:34 PMPosted by CarmageddonAn Old God being behind the whispers to Vol'jin to appoint Sylvanas would make very little sense with the way the Void freaked out around her in the Three Sisters comic.
Unfortunately, we often have to remember that what we see as a totally obvious non-twist is completely out of left field for 99% of players. When we dig into a seemingly throwaway line from an Old God servant that gives away a major plot point two expansions in advance and it becomes common knowledge here, Blizzard treats it as a huge surprise when it comes to pass because it is for most people. Same with events that leak months or weeks in advance, like the burning of Teldrassil. For most players, the obvious "Sylvanas did it" was shocking, but we here tricked ourselves into thinking it wasn't surprising enough because we knew too much.
So yeah, N'Zoth being the obvious manipulator probably isn't a red herring.
So yeah, N'Zoth being the obvious manipulator probably isn't a red herring.
it was shocking because blizzard said there was gonna be some mystery into who did it and it was too obvious to be sylvanas.10/31/2018 06:37 PMPosted by Galka"Sylvanas did it" was shocking, but we here tricked ourselves into thinking it wasn't surprising enough because we knew too much.
10/31/2018 08:00 PMPosted by Withpuppysit was shocking because blizzard said there was gonna be some mystery into who did it and it was too obvious to be sylvanas.10/31/2018 06:37 PMPosted by Galka"Sylvanas did it" was shocking, but we here tricked ourselves into thinking it wasn't surprising enough because we knew too much.
Yes, absolutely. But I think it's fair to say that the aforementioned 99% of players don't read those blue posts on Wowhead/MMOChamp, if you know what I mean. Other than the small handful of people on forums similar to these, everyone saw Teldrassil lore for the first time when they did the quests. Them being dishonest with people like us is just a calculated loss (and not necessarily a bad business call to ignore us, to be fair to them).
In retrospect, Blizzard's tee-up for Battle for Azeroth was really poor.10/31/2018 08:00 PMPosted by Withpuppysit was shocking because blizzard said there was gonna be some mystery into who did it and it was too obvious to be sylvanas.
"Alliance, seeking revenge after your king's betrayal on the Broken Shore."
Except it wasn't a betrayal, we literally saw what happened in a cutscene. Hell, ANDUIN learned about it in Before the Storm, so that's a non-factor. I don't agree with many of Sylvanas's decisions, but this one I don't fault her for.
"Horde, looking for a home after the death of your planet."
I mean, that only applies to the orcs, and at this point they're well ingrained in Azerothian society. The issue of finding a home is long past, to the point where I'd say removing the orcs from Azeroth would be a detriment. They're not looking for a home, they have a home.
"Why would Sylvanas burn down Teldrassil?"
The mystery of who struck first was solved before BlizzCon even ended, and the question had a very weak answer(s) at the end of the day. If you asked anyone to guess it based on the information given in that presentation, I'd wager that many people would've got it on the nose.
And to be clear, I don't defend Blizzard's handling of any recent "mysteries" like Teldrassil, I just mean to say that their mysteries-that-turn-out-to-be-totally-what-we-on-this-forum-expected strategy caters to most players that don't follow lore, and expecting Vol'jin's manipulator to be anything other than N'Zoth might be setting yourself up for a bad time.
10/31/2018 08:11 PMPosted by GalkaAnd to be clear, I don't defend Blizzard's handling of any recent "mysteries" like Teldrassil, I just mean to say that their mysteries-that-turn-out-to-be-totally-what-we-on-this-forum-expected strategy caters to most players that don't follow lore, and expecting Vol'jin's manipulator to be anything other than N'Zoth might be setting yourself up for a bad time.
In 8.4, it will be revealed it was just a couple grunts in the room, who inadvertently realized Vol'jin was so out of it he thought they were loa. So they started taking bets on who could get the warchief to order the craziest crap.
This is also why Orcs started standing up straight, and hunters started using melee weapons.
10/31/2018 06:37 PMPosted by GrandbladeThe motivations of the Void likely are not synonymous with those of the Azerothian Old Gods. They are not a uniform force, having warred with each other before the Titans showed up. Plus, we don't known if the Void was freaking out because it legitimately saw Sylvanas as a threat, or it was just trying to play off Alleria's paranoia to drive her closer to breaking.10/31/2018 06:34 PMPosted by CarmageddonAn Old God being behind the whispers to Vol'jin to appoint Sylvanas would make very little sense with the way the Void freaked out around her in the Three Sisters comic.
You’re assuming the infighting isn’t motivated by the Void itself. Think about it. The Void believes in all possibilities as the Truth. As such, having multiple Old Gods fighting over the same world is perfectly acceptable: each represents a possibility, let the best eldritch horror win. That’s how it sounds coming from Xal’atath anyway (granted, she’s not exactly a Font of Truth). At any rate, I don’t think Alleria’s Voices would call N’Zoth “The True Enemy.” They’ve got much more pronounced enemies than that.
I like the Dreadlord Idea. It makes sense that a Dread Lord would have helped the Legion kill Vol’jin. Tichondrias seems to have some insider knowledge on the subject. And I can see why the Void would call Sargeras “the True Enemy.” He was planning on a Dead Universe just to deny the Void. Then again, Dread Lords do have connections to both the Void and Death.