Actually, she is. She is abiding by the Horde’s philosophy of survival. As for tantrums, that’s more Saurfang’s business, who would rather kill himself without intervention, and Baine who would kill members of the Horde to deliver an Alliance member to the Alliance.
Yes, it was indeed detected. There was backlash. Whole grimtotem thing.
Actually, the Horde would be in a lot of danger had she let the Alliance get free azerite. She knew the cycle of hatred would continue whether or not the Horde or Alliance started it, because Genn proved so in his attack during a Legion invasion.
Saurfang was committed to the cause for the survival of the Horde, it’s why he led the troops in Ashenvale in the first place.
Baine defended the horde when Sylvanas refused to. He killed collaborators that were more than happy to rip the free will from Derek, who has no ties to the alliance, except being related to Jaina, just to try to get a jab at Jaina after Sylvanas has failed miserably over and over again.
Also, I can’t really say I blame Saurfang for wanting a warriors death, he’s pretty frigging old by Orc standards, and he already sees where all of this is going.
Personally, I am -not- okay with the horde becoming Scourge 2.0, but if you are, then go ahead and kiss up to the dark lady, until she tosses you aside when your usefulness is completely used up, or she can use you to shield her from reprecussions of her own actions.
Edit: Also, leave it to a Slyvanas fanboy to turn a thread about Thrall into a Thread about Sylvanas.
Sylvanas totally is all about that free will thing, so long as your free will means you blindly follow her and do exactly as she says all the time. If your free will means you have a contrary opinion, it means you must die. Free will! Weeeeee.
Every single loss has been caused by Saurfang and Baine, minus the SI:7 destroying the Zandalari fleet. Sylvanas herself has not directly failed once.
Would you rather have Sylvanas, or Alliance? That’s where this is going. And I’m not a Sylvanas fanboy, I have considered all things and decided that only one side is truly being Horde at the moment.
Sylvanas wants everyone to be a mindless puppet, she wants everyone to be her undead puppets, the fact you can’t see that shows how -blind- you actually are.
Because if anyone isn’t a mindslave to her, their a threat to put her in the ground, for good, forever, and she’d have to suffer that torment she’s so terrified of. And one she’s rightfully earned.
You still haven’t provided me with any evidence that proves this. Also, she demands loyalty. That’s pretty much it, and many elder members of the Horde has betrayed it and her.
However, before betraying her, they hurt the Horde the most. It’s strange.
Yea, only after Cairne was killed. The process of vetting a Mak’Gora is obviously not perfect since it was conducted in a dishonourable manner. Maybe not by Garrosh, but it’s not impervious to tampering. Saurfang is right not to challenge Sylvanas. She doesn’t care about honour, she has straight told us as such. She WOULD cheat and Saurfang would then be to dead to do anything further.
Oh come on… alternate scenario time!
Sylvanas: Yo Alliance, I know we just beat up the Burning Legion and all, but I think we got a problem.
Anduin: Suuuup Sylvie! Want some strawberry milk? Also what’s that problem?
Slyvanas: Well you know that giant sword that stabbed our planet? It seems to have caused the planet to bleed or something. Check out all this Azerite stuff!
Anduin: Whoa, that’s pretty bad. Whatcha thinking?
Sylvanas: Well, I know we have had our disagreements in the past and all, but it seems like the planet bleeding out is a problem, so how about since we are fresh out of working together to solve a huge problem, continue to work together and figure out how we can patch up our home, so we can secure our home for generations to come and avoid war?
Anduin: Well gee, that does sound like a good plan. Lets do that.
War averted, people start to… actually get along! Resources put towards saving the planet. This seems like the smarter decision to me.
And Sylvie was using Forsaken troops to Blight Genns home pad against her orders. What’s your point?
Something tells me that despite lack of honor, she’d be too proud of her skills to cheat, especially in front of a nation that demands and respects show of strength. She’s not dumb enough to nullify that.
It’s a weapon of war to prevent Horde losses, and to be honest Gilneas didn’t exactly surrender. That whole fighting in the streets thing with Liam, it sounds more like fanatical suicide. The whole zone has you only run at the end when the whole city is lost, it’s like why not do that before? And to be honest, oh look, an enemy leader rallying troops. Is it really not fair game to kill that combatant? I mean, he did jump in front of Genn, so I don’t even know why I have to argue for him.
This entire pointless war, she started, completely unprovoked, has cost the horde, thousands, if not tens of thousands of lives,
destroying families, and preventing all forms of healing and reconstruction after a DEMON INVASION that threatened to wipe ALL OF US out. It’s caused damage to entire nations, and multiple factiosn that had no stake in the war.
It’s left the planet to rot, and for things to fester and grow more powerful.
her inability to control her own emotions, and her inability to think ahead in the long run has cost the horde a TON.
But no, lets blame Saurfang, for refusing to go along with Sylvanas’s terrible plans.
Lets blame baine because he refuses to let the horde turn into the scourge.
Blame everyone but your precious “warchief” who has done nothing but bring misery upon the world, wether it be by war, by blight, or machinactions that could have completely ruined the assult on the lich king in wrath.
No, you stamp you foot in refusal, and point the finger at everyone else. Everyone else is wrong for not following sylvanas mindlessly off the cliff!
And of course she is dumb enough to nullify that. She is going to make sure she doesn’t end up back into VoidHell, she is beyond terrified of it. To get beat in a Mak’Gora is just going to send her back. She would cheat, she would just be more clever about it than the Gromtotem where.
Here’s the thing, and I understand your frustrations because I should have mentioned this earlier. Although she’s done terrible things, there’s simply not enough reason for me to betray her. It’s either too early, or she hasn’t directly done enough like Garrosh did to hurt the Horde. I don’t agree with Saurfang’s subjective view of honor, but I do agree with honor. I don’t agree with Baine’s killing of Horde members, but I understand his anger. But so far for me, Sylvanas is still doing her job well enough that if I betrayed her, I would be a coward, and breaking the Horde’s law for a second time in lore.
She’s already betrayed the horde on multiple occassions, ousting a despot, psychotic leader who is doing nothing but causing death and destruction around her isn’t an act of betrayal and a sign of being a coward.
To do NOTHING would be the sign of a coward. You’d sit by and watch Sylvanas burn everything around you to the ground, and murder anyone who would speak out against her.
Eventually there will be no one left to speak for -you- as they all stay silent, when your the next one on the chopping block for refusing to cowtow to the latest insane plot
This is why I disagree with Saurfang and Baine, both whom are skilled enough to beat her 1v1 and smart enough for their witnesses to act if there was foul play in a Mak’gora.
