Likewise it doesn’t mean there are more either. Teleportation is overwhelmingly the shown manner in which mages travel.
They seem pretty close if said guy is basically the world’s greatest mage. Not even in the idea he came back to life but just that he faked his death.
Polymorph is extremely common. There is every reason to believe some number of mages would have developed a variation of self poly.
And even if there were very, very few, Terenas would have been familiar with it enough polymorph to know it was certainly possible.
In other words, a magic user turning into a bird is not something that would have seemed super out there.
I disagree.
Yes, as powerful as he was meant that him coming back was certainly possible (as evidenced by the fact he did). However, mages using transformation magic is extremely common. Polymorph was a very commonly taught spell. We have even found out that Jaina played with a poly wand as a child.
A guy showing up and using a variation of magic children can play with is not something that would say ‘greatest mage in the world.’
Which brings us to:
Well, yes. If have a choice between casting a spell and then flying for some not insignificant amount of time or casting a spell and being somewhere instantly which would you do? So, for traveling teleportation is going to be significantly more common as long as you have the choice to use it. But it is also shown to be the more complicated, harder to master magic. Meaning, his arriving using weaker, lower skill spell would be more likely to make him seem like he is not the world’s greatest mage.
TIL that the old af King of Tirisfal never met the guardian of Tirisfal even one single time in his entire life. /s
We know that Khadgar had Ateish because he speaks of using it’s Raven form as being preferable to the saddle sores of riding a gryphon. (Which he’s had experience of. Karazhan had its own gryphon dock.)
It may be that I am not understanding you point, but it looks like you misunderstood what I was referring to.
I was talking about the staff Medivh was using in WC3. Yes, Khadgar has Atiesh. Medivh did not have it during WC3, but he was shown with a very similar looking staff. I was arguing Medivh’s staff was not a forgery of Atiesh because he never showed any intent to make people believe he actually had Atiesh. He was just wielding a replacement that was similar.
I’m arguing that it wasn’t a staff at all since he was a ghost. It’s part of his self image as a ghost. He didn’t actually do anything other than fly around and give cryptic warnings and advice.
I’m not saying it’d seem super out there, just self-polymorph and specifically into a raven is not commonly seen. It could possibly be more common in that respect, just not something that’s actually backed. Not saying that alone is like, it MUST be Medivh.
I mean if he’s doing the same trick and holding a the same looking staff, my main issue is he didn’t even bother investigating more. Not that he didn’t immediately think it is Medivh.
The reason I mention teleportation being more common is just highlighting how unusual self poly transportation is. Like theory aside, we just don’t see it much.
Interesting take. I had not seen him as a ghost. From the way he is presented and character reactions I read it that he was back physically. I still think that is correct and he came back in a more literal sense. But I can see the ghost theory being plausible.
But more common than people coming back from the dead.
That assumes a certain level of knowledge from Terenas. Did he know Medivh took a raven form? Or just a bird? Did he even know what the staff looked like? He was not personally familiar with Medivh, or else he would have recognized him by site. So, logically we have to conclude he either never personally saw Medivh or that it was few and short/distant/etc enough that he didn’t know what Medivh looked like.
Who said he didn’t? He had a lot going on. Maybe he sent people to find out something about the guy that came into the throne room and they just never found anything.
We don’t see it much. But, how often does the average person see someone riding a bikes vs driving cars? Cars are more effective and less work. So, that is what most people use. Same would follow for mages. Teleportation is less work and more effective, so it will be used vastly more often.
What I am getting at is that it may not be as common, but it is not unheard of. And not something that really should screamed ‘only one mage would do this.’
Which is why I mentioned the idea of thinking he faked his death rather than actually came back, which seems an easier buy.
Yeah, quite possible he didn’t know anything about him. I think it is knowledge he should have tried to have as a king, but he might not have, yeah.
Well again, it doesn’t really evidence that he did.
I don’t really agree with the comparison. I see bikes basically every other day I’m driving. I can’t think of any other instances of mages that turn into animals for transportation, let alone ravens, outside these two. (Just druids who weren’t about in much capacity then.)
Which would also be a less common event than someone using transformation magic.
However you swing it, from Terenas point of view there were lots of more likely options than it being Medivh.
He probably knew about as much as anyone could with just reports from another country up to the point of Medivh’s death. He likely just never met him in person. And there were likely few portraits/images of Medivh. So, he likly knew a decent amount about him, but there would have been a lot of limitations.
No there is not. Because it wouldn’t have changed anything. Which is kind of the point I was making. He could have put a lot of people working on the ‘who was that guy’ and nobody would have found anything. And since either scenario is equally possible and neither scenario changes the end result it is hard to hold it against him.
That depends a lot on where you live and what you are doing. It is kind of a sample bias issue. Which is what would be happening with our characters as well. Most of the dealing with travel is big important world changing events. And traveling considerable distances. So that is going to bias what is primarily seen.
And there is something else you need to consider. We don’t see a ton of mages transforming into animals for travel, but nobody is surprised by it. We don’t see anyone meeting Khadgar and expressing surprise when he transforms into a raven. Nobody did that with Medivh either. It isn’t treated as something shocking and super unique about them. Everyone treats it as just normal. So, if current NPCs do not treat it as something super unique, why should Terenas have? Best evidence is that it is an uncommon, but not unique thing.
I wouldn’t say lots, but there were other possibilities, sure.
Maybe. I agree his knowledge on the topic is uncertain.
Well it’d show him as a little bit more on the ball to me. But I understand the idea the story doesn’t need to dig into every little niche like we do.
I don’t really think there’s evidence it is a sample bias, though. Since I don’t think there’s anything that hints at that.
I don’t think it is shocking either. Since unique doesn’t equate to shocking. But even in concept, a world with so much magic, I think a lot of things of a rare nature might not be worth noting. But if we agree it is uncommon but just disagree on the extent of that uncommonness, so be it. I don’t think the position is outlandish or anything, just not my take.
Khadgar and Lothar chopped his head off. That’s hard to fake. He rather seriously needed to die given that he was the avatar of Sargeras at the time.
We have polymorph.
There are illusions. There’s mind control magic. There’s transmutation and conjuration. It doesn’t seem hard for one of the strongest wizards in the world to do.
Drahs point is, all those things are hard to do when your head was literally seperated from the rest of your body.
The entire premise of faking your death is your head isn’t actually being separated.
Sure. Ignoring that Medivh himself admits he died once already. Kind of a weird thing to lie about
I think you missed the context, I’m not saying Medivh did fake his death. Just that there are easier explanations for his return besides that if someone saw him.
His mother did resurrect him. So, it’s kinda been explained already.
You’re still missing the point. I’m not saying explained in the story.