So, let's talk about "Classic+"; do you want Dual-spec to return? Changes? Whatcha thankin'?

So, I’m probably in the minority here, but I wasn’t really a fan of adding Dual-spec to the Anniversary servers; it just changed the design structure a lot, and I don’t think really offers an “authentic” experience.

But then “Classic+” doesn’t necessarily need to be purely old-school. I’m sure we all have differing opinions, but I’d love seeing everyone else’s opinions, and just be able to share our thoughts, why we stand where we stand, and see what we can glean from each others’ views.

So; my personal take?

I’m… still not a huge fan of dual-spec. But let me explain! When Death Knights launched at the very start of Wrath (the start specifically), I thought those are the best talent trees Blizzard have ever made. The reason is; they were designed to add “hybrid” options in all three of the talent trees, allowing you to pick up a little bit of an “off-spec” with minimal deviation from a hyper-specialized build.

To me, that is the kind of design philosophy I would love to see applied to the Classic classes.

For example; let’s say you’re a Paladin and you’re going Ret (because of course you are – no judgement, you are my people!). Well, what if deeper in the Ret tree, you also got a few relatively “cheap” talents that could open up some new options? Like “Zeal”, giving you a chance on being struck to immediately counter-attack (setting up some “off-tank” options), or a talent that increases your healing output the longer you go without dealing damage (for the “off-healer”).

Here’s my rationale:

The whole concept behind a talent tree is allowing the player to customize their character. How does my Ret Paladin differ from your Ret Paladin? Maybe you go all-in on damage at all costs, giving up any additional utility do you can eek out that little bit of extra damage, whereas maybe I give up like 15% of my theoretical “max” damage, in order to pick up the ability to pick up aggro and tank a boss if one of our “main” tanks gets unlucky with a boss crit and dies.

Now, this would obviously require changes elsewhere as well. Maybe instead of all these different “green stats” on gear, maybe you get talents that convert your primary attributes to granting those kinds of effects as well. Maybe instead of a gold cost to respec (which is trivialized by making gold, and just becomes an arguous “speedbump”), you can only respec once a week, meaning you have some real investment into your spec.

Ultimately, my goal is that your talent choices should speak to what you value as a player, and how you want to play your particular character. With the addition of dual-spec, I feel like it just caters to the min-max mindset, which is something I think has actively destroyed the game over time. Anything that encourages more variety is a good thing, in my opinion.

Oh, also; for Mages, I would love to see more variety in whether you go all-in one a single magic type, or want to play around with multiple schools. I’ve had enough fun with healing as an Arcane Mage (though I wouldn’t be devastated or anything if the option never returned, healing still feels “wrong” for a mage imo), I didn’t like how I was pigeonholed into only dealing Arcane damage. I would’ve loved to be able to choose between increasing my damage output (presumably investing in Fire), or adding some utility and crowd-control through improving my Blizzard, without completely sacrificing my ability to heal by using non-Arcane spells.

That’s just my take, though.

I’m curious where you guys stand, and moreover, why you feel that way. Reading my thoughts, what things do you disagree with, and what do you not like? Do you see room for a happy medium, refining suggestions others have posted, or even sparking new solutions entirely?

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Let’s not thanks champ.

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Yea lets not. The conversation most likely will just devolve due to nobody really agreeing what classic+ is or should be.

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ive been against dual spec in most forms of vanllia /era types of wow for most of the time.

i changed my mind in sod when they were experimenting with different builds and abilities and roles and whatnot and liked the flexibility.

if classic + is to be a permanent thing i would really want no dual spec but i would be fine with it being in as well.

i too liked the catchall roles that dks had and like the mix and match style of vanilla/era classes and wouldnt want it to become like it was in retail where you only did arcane damage or onnnnnnly frost or only fire and just had different spell effects of the same color.

honestly im fine with adding a few things that are controversial but with limits and in the case of mog a toggle.

but whatever i hope this doesnt devolve into what i think it might lol.

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I believe your spec is your identity. If you choose your spec, you should be locked into it – if you want to play another spec, you should level another one with the same class but different spec.

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You are

No thanks. Inferior opinion ignored.

Nobody will ever agree on what it should be. Blizzard will never be able to please everyone. My best guess which is a shot in the dark like anyone else is it will be some mix between Anniversary/Sod/Retail. What that looks like who knows. I’ll stick to Era/Hc if it still exists, otherwise guess it’s time to retire.

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i threw up in my mouth reading that

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No particular order:

  1. Dual spec
  2. Warrior rage normalization (anyone defending a class doing literally double everyone else’s damage in pve has brain damage and should be safely ignored)
  3. Buffs for dumpster specs in ways THAT DO NOT CHANGE ROTATION (ie Ret can get a melee haste buff baked into their 31 pointer, BUT NOT crusader strike)
  4. Max PvP duration limit on Poly/Sap at 15 seconds
  5. Holding a flag in WSG removes your ability to jump (it’s an ugly fix for terrain exploiting… but much easier)
  6. PvP revamp to a “random rated solo queu” system… Expectation is that people should slowly be able to gain rating at a ~50% winrate, but getting to HWL would take an astronomical amount of time. More talented players would get there substantially faster via faster rating gains via winning more.
  7. Horde Paladins and Alliance shamans (idc if it’s undead paladins, or literally just adding blood elves/space goats and their respective starter zones).
  8. Battleground queu player pools are no longer faction specific… Dump every single player into the queu, and just form teams ASAP.
  9. ^ no stupid masks either for playing the opposing faction. “Mercenary mode” can just lore wise mean someone’s getting paid to fight for the other side, they don’t need to cosplay as that faction too.
  10. Spec specific gear sets for hybrids, likely on a token system (without doing the ridiculous statflation that SoD did)
  11. PvP trinkets remain limited in what effects they break like vanilla
  12. NEW CONTENT… Raid tiers/zones/etc Think Turtle WoW
  13. Keep GDKPS out
  14. Also ban boosting
  15. Also ban paid carries for loot (you know the “WTS HOJ” instance runs)
  16. Incentivize WPvP if you want WPvP to happen. EPL Towers, Silithus sand never did.
  17. AV needs to not be a 5min boss zug.
  18. Transmog
  19. Leaving a bg mid game should give deserter to the entire account. It should also not lose timer while offline.
  20. Leaving a rated bg mid game should AT LEAST DOUBLE the rating loss penalty.
  21. EDIT added in… If we’re gonna keep the Wbuff meta… WCB needs to have an alliance counterpart AND INCREASE THE DAMN WARNING TIMER FOR IT TO 1MIN INSTEAD OF A USELESS 6 SECONDS… sitting around waiting for damn WCB every week is just awful.

So yeah… more balanced PvE, more variety pvp, lower queu timers, and via rating HWL might actually mean something again.

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I’m torn I enjoyed GDKP but will play classic+ with our without it

I want them to do WBs like they do in sod(infinite sets of them basically)

Neither here nor there on the QoL stuff, to be honest. Dual spec, instant mail, summoning stones, etc. is not going to have any impact on how much I play

It all comes down to the new content that comes with it. I would expect an expansion sized, massive content dump to keep me engaged until the next expansion does it all over again

That’s where the core of WoW’s fun resides. Rolling through new content with the boys in a world where Questie does not know where to mark X on the map

thank you for being honest and recognizing that doll spock greatly effects the game and is NOT a good change for classic :expressionless:

Nobody does that. When it comes to talent trees, everyone is using what wowhead shows as the best

Your list is very sensible and seems coherent except for #18, Transmog. Probably could have a whole thread for that topic but I like the suggestion I’ve seen that Transmog should be a global toggle. If you have it off, you see everyone in their equipped gear.

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TBC Talent Trees
Dual Spec
Bestahn & Slahtz

Dual spec is a no brainer it’s one of the most positively accepted changes with no downside(since #nochanges doesn’t apply to classic+)

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Entirely fair, Xmog is always a controversial one… and a toggle would be an ideal “everyone can be happy” compromise.

Would love more race/class variety (shoot just have all races all classes) for horde pallies/ally shams its just a matter of adding a few new quest givers.

Big thing I would like to experiment with though are Troll Druids in Classic.

For new forms they could either add new forms or be simple with it and give all ally druids the night elf forms and likewise with the horde and their tauren druid forms.

They have troll druids in retail so that works already been done

Neither was I, but I’d be all for implementing Dual spec, if you had to go to the capital to change specs. It could be free for all I care, but it’s the uber-convenience of changing everywhere that bothers me.

On the other hand, I too love the old Vanilla Talent tree with the freedom to customize, and really do not like what Cata did to it. Your idea of “talent stats” on gear is not bad, but not totally good either. I’d love more different stats on gear, and not always the two same, but keep it simple, is my principle, so more different stats on gear, not always Stam/Int on this type and Agi/Str on that other type (only examples :wink: ).

I’d like to add:
Transmogging (on a toggle if possible)
Barbershop - use this for money sink instead of respeccing :wink:
Behsten and Slaats - money sink and fun!
More contents, more zones filled out, more quests on any level above 20,

The big - really big - poblem with Classic+ is that Blizz will always listen to the “more, faster, easier”-crew, making the result not fun for more than a single playthrough.