So... is Survival Just a "Boomstick Bot" now?

[Peachy-3258066 (Peachy)]

@Altani-mannoroth

@Rarebite-moon-guard

@Altani-mannoroth

Which has no bearing on whether something can be meaningfully tested in its absence as a comparison against other specs differently affected by the absence of their extremely different CDs.

This is where you’re objectively wrong. Every Spec has baseline damage throughput outside of burst windows. This is an objective truth of every Spec with a Damage Amp Skill.

I never said otherwise. In fact, that has nothing to do with what you quoted.

Not all damage amps, even those with discrete activators and set durations, are “main CDs”. Look at Judgment, for instance. Look at old Sunder Armor, at old Seraphim, at Savage Roar, at pre-12.1 Bulletstorm.

Yes, you did, and yes, it does. You are claiming that testing a Spec’s steady-state without its damage amp skill has no relevant or useful meaning when compared to other such similar skills.

You then list passive damage amps, reframing the discussion away from skill damage amps, which has no merit in my original observation and argument.

@Altani-mannoroth

@Rarebite-moon-guard

Giving one Damage Amp Skill more frequent use does not change its primary function: amplifying damage.

And, again, damage amps are not inherently CDs.

Yes, they are, when their primary function is to amplify damage, no matter how short their cooldown is.

@Altani-mannoroth

Steady-state damage is exactly what is given by using your rotations, including BW, on CD. Again, removing it from the gameplay does not give any usefully alternate picture of the spec, only a disproportionately degraded one.

This is more or less subjective, as Blizzard has even said in their blue post:

@Linxy

Beast Mastery

• Developers’ notes: Beast Mastery Hunters felt a bit weak outside of Bestial Wrath damage windows, so we’re increasing their steady-state damage by boosting Kill Command, Cobra Shot, and Barbed Shot.

You may not like it, and we will never know what sort of metrics Blizzard watches, but them reaching the same conclusion I have proves that steady-state damage is meaningful, does exist outside of Bestial Wrath windows, and needed improvement.

@Altani-mannoroth

@Rarebite-moon-guard

In an isolated environment, under very specific conditions, my test results are

inherently useless, since you’re comparing something with 50% uptime of its rotational damage amp and tuned around that rotational amp being used nearly on CD against CDs with only ~16.7% uptime. You may as well remove Rapid Fire from MM or Boomstick from Survival.

Rapid Fire nor Boomstick are not damage amps, so your point is moot. Besides:

@Rarebite-moon-guard

• A Spec’s weak steady-state damage does not feel good, and giving the Damage Amp more frequent uptime does not make those windows during the cooldown feel better.
• • Some players will enjoy the frequent burst window Bestial Wrath provides to the spec.
• Other players will still feel Beast Mastery relies too much on Bestial Wrath.
• • Neither side is wrong.

@Altani-mannoroth

@Rarebite-moon-guard

This statement doesn’t hold up when compared to both raid logs

Yes, it does. That is exactly what we see.

Ironic that you use Mythic raid logs where everyone is using an optimized spec, rotation/*playstyle, max gear, gems, everything. It’s almost like reframing.

@Altani-mannoroth

@Rarebite-moon-guard

and isolated testing.

Which is not a thing — especially not of any value.

Yes, it is a thing, and yes, the results can be valuable at best, or useful at the very least.

@Altani-mannoroth

What you are attempting to fixate an entire spec’s design on —open world gameplay against a single mob you’d somehow nonetheless take almost a minute to kill— is virtually irrelevant even to the few players to never step into group content.

If it’s so irrelevant, then why did Blizzard reach the same conclusion?

@Linxy

Developers’ notes: Beast Mastery Hunters felt a bit weak outside of Bestial Wrath damage windows, so we’re increasing their steady-state damage by boosting Kill Command, Cobra Shot, and Barbed Shot.

• Felt weak outside of Bestial Wrath Windows
• Increasing steady-state damage.

@Altani-mannoroth

Because they will hit Bestial Wrath

Do you know why players will hit Bestial Wrath? I know why:

• Because ~50% of their damage is gated behind it.
• • I’m beginning to think Blizzard did this on purpose, thinking every Hunter Player will like having so much BW uptime.
  • • It’s almost like they’re punishing casual players who do not want to maximize their BW uptime windows. Does that make the casual player wrong, or is that just poor class design?

@Altani-mannoroth

If you’re going to keep taking the piss at the expense of rationality, I’m not sure why you’d think it’s a flex to savor said piss after.

Are you getting frustrated because my arguments are difficult to counter? It’s ok, but please don’t resort to ad hominems when the person you’re debating is genuinely putting forth honest effort.

@Altani-mannoroth

Your test is irrelevant.

Subjective.

@Altani-mannoroth

BW has been rotational

So is Trueshot and Takedown. This doesn’t strengthen your argument against my test and its results.

Let me ask: is the casual player expected to suffer if they treat Bestial Wrath like a proper cooldown, opting not to press it every 30sec?

• Are they wrong for wanting that sort of balance in the casual entry-level content?