So... is Survival Just a "Boomstick Bot" now?

Classes Hunter
917

These are personal choices and not issues for casual play and entry-level content.

  • A 2nd charge of Survival of the Fittest is not really needed if a player knows the mechanics. 1 charge and Aspect of the Turtle can be viable for the content I’m doing.
  • Not following a standard does not mean there are issues for entry-level content. :dracthyr_tea:
  • ‘gg you still suck’ is subjective and has no merit or weight if you’re criticizing a player’s skill. :dracthyr_tea:
  • You’re hyperfocusing on Parse Numbers again. If you look at the actual summary, you’ll see I dealt more dps and had better Active% than:
    • The Frost Mage with a 38 Parse.
    • The Frost DK with a 49 Parse.
    • The Boomkin with a 51 Parse.

Again, you’re putting too much faith on the face value of the Parse Number, ignoring the Summary where it shows I provided more average DPS contribution than other players who parsed higher than me, yet ranked below me in the summary. :dracthyr_tea:

  • You’re lumping Casual Play with endgame Competitive Play and claiming it’s ‘unacceptable’. The raid log shows I am performing at/above average for the Boss Fight in question, and you’re mad because you simply cannot refute that. :dracthyr_tea:
  • I never said I was god’s gift to the game, you did.
  • You calling me garbage proves you’re mad that the evidence in the raid log is disproving your argument.
    • This just further proves that raid logs, specifically one piece of evidence, is not enough to judge whether a player is skilled or not. :dracthyr_tea:

I was giving an example, yet now you’re curious to dissect the log and investigate? Where was this attitude earlier? :thinking:

If we’re talking about this Vorasius fight: warcraftlogscom/reports/k1Vq7HfGP9hwQxDM?fight=80&type=casts

  • If by idling you mean ‘not doing anything’, then you’re once again proven wrong.
    • The log shows I have a 34 casts per minute, and the summary shows 99% Active Time. :dracthyr_tea:

Raid log shows I actually did 8.3 million damage, with 35.4k DPS average. So, you’re wrong… again. :dracthyr_tea:

Yes, Wild Thrash would’ve been very handy for the Blister Creeps, I agree. Unfortunately everyone who was targeted by a Blister Creep spaced themselves too far or ran around like a headless chicken.

  • This is why I decided to focus purely on Vorasius.

Do you see now how raw data shows what, but not why? :thinking:

  • You’re once again making subjective speculations of skill based on nothing but pieces of data that do not tell you the why. :dracthyr_shrug:
  • Correct, I could do more with my build. This is something I’m not denying. Do you want to know why I don’t do more?
    • I am a casual player. I like to experiment with builds and different talent nodes myself through experience rather than looking up guides and ‘how to’ videos. Is that not what video gaming is about: trial and error through your own experiences? So you can learn firsthand what your class can do and see which synergies work and which feel too rigid? :thinking:

You obviously missed the point I was making. Let me spell it out for you… again:

  • A player’s Parse Number does not reflect how well they did on the Boss Fight against the other evidence provided within the raid log.
    • Nor does it reflect their skill when engaging the mechanics. :dracthyr_tea:
  • … This is not a full AoE fight, Arahgon. The Shroomlings do not spawn constantly. They spawn at certain time thresholds. Which means this is not a full AoE Fight. Blizzard does not design Fights which exclude either Single Target or AoE Builds. :dracthyr_tea:
  • Yes, I do did not put a talent into Trueshot. Yes, I have a pet. This is the fantasy build I chose.
    • Despite your ‘car without an engine’ analogy, I still performed at/above average. :dracthyr_tea:
  • Undercasting certain abilities can sometimes be a playstyle preference.
    • I am choosing Arcane Shot over Kill Shot because it is my most proc’d ability. Thus it receives a higher priority.
    • I am not actually undercasting Aimed Shot or Rapidfire. With the build I am using, these two abilities are functioning as intended. They are not underperforming for my build or playstyle.
    • Yes, [Small Game Hunter] is unfortunately a Talent I had to take to invest further into talents that I wanted:
      • [Eagle’s Accuracy]: Aimed Shot deals 5%/10% increased damage and Rapid Fire deals 10%/20% increased damage.
      • [Focus Fire]: When Surging Shots resets the cooldown of Rapid Fire, the damage of your next Rapid Fire is increased by 20%.
      • [Unload]: When Rapid Fire begins and finished channeling, it releases an Arcane Shot at 100% effectiveness. Below 20%, releases Kill Shots instead.

My class-spec is not underperforming, like you claim. Yes, players will naturally be higher on the DPS meter than me if they are using optimal builds. Again, I like playing with my non-optimal yet equally as viable off-key build.

  • It does not matter if I am near the bottom of the DPS meter so long as:
    • I clear the Boss Fight mechanics
    • And out DPS the Tanks.

Does that make sense? :dracthyr_tea:

Then you are intentionally arguing in bad faith and spreading disinformation to discredit based on blind assumptions. The burden of proof is on YOU. :dracthyr_tea:

Agreed! There is always context and a ‘why’ to someone’s build+play style. However:

  • You are once again trying to force an optimal build+style onto a casual player and claiming that if they don’t take certain ‘standard’ talents, then the player is intentionally ‘sandbagging’.
    • This is another discrediting accusation with no weight when it is presented with the full dataset in the raid log.
  • You are intentionally grandstanding and gatekeeping Builds you deem ‘underperforming’ based on singular selective metrics, false equivalences, and confirmation bias.
    • Again, non-optimal builds are just as viable in entry-level content as optimal builds. Everything you have been suggesting or questioning about my build is you declaring that my off-key build is not viable and must be changed to meet a certain ‘standard’, when the data clearly shows that I am clearing these Boss Fights at/above average performance. :dracthyr_tea:

We’re not comparing Classes to one another. We are comparing a single Class-Spec. Do not attempt to strawman this argument. :dracthyr_tea:

Now you actually have a somewhat fair argument! Asking for evidence is good! Let me tell you why I do not play Survival in entry-level content:

  • I do not like the design decisions Blizzard made with Boomstick and its place as a required talent node on the Survival Tree. Additionally, the rhythm seems to have lost its fun for me, so I will not play it in any entry-level content. :dracthyr_shrug:

Your argument weakens when you use an ad hominem; attacking my character because I express ideas and questions that you do not like.

  • I’m not ignorant of the Spec.
  • Nor ignorant on how it functions.
  • I have been playing Hunter Class since Vanilla.

I have a fairly good grasp on the class as a whole.

Again, you’re attacking me as a person because I am playing my class-spec in a way you cannot comprehend and the raid log data serves as evidence to support my argument. :dracthyr_tea:

There is nothing wrong with wanting or suggesting more simplified or improved talent design for better player expression. Sometimes players want to only press two or three buttons in the overworld or a delve or in a prey hunt. Those forms of content exist too, or did you happen to forget? :dracthyr_tea:

You’re again reaching for a strawman argument. Me advocating for a more casual class-spec is just that: an appeal for more casual play. :dracthyr_tea:

There is no such talent or ability called Shadowy Spirits. If you mean Auspicious Spirits, then you are wrong. That talent is entirely optional. :dracthyr_tea:

You jumped to accusations and assumptions based on a single metric on a single raid log. :roll_eyes:

  • Wrong. I want to play specs with my chosen inputs.
  • The data contradicts itself if you took more than 10min to actually research the raid log and talent build. :dracthyr_tea:
  • I openly admitted several times when I have been wrong. :roll_eyes:
  • A false equivalence and a strawman. You really need to take some reading comprehension classes.
    • My test had very specific parameters, conditions, and constraints. It was never intended to document ‘normal’ gameplay. :dracthyr_tea:

Yes, I am. You are objectively wrong with your subjective assumption. :dracthyr_tea:

More ad hominems rather than admitting you are wrong or addressing the actual argument. :dracthyr_tea:

A false equivalence. I know exactly how to play my class-spec. You just don’t like that the raid log shows the data to prove it. Let me repeat it for you since you seem to have trouble understanding: non-optimal builds can be just as viable in entry-level content as optimal builds. :dracthyr_tea:

I never said Barbed Shot wasn’t important. YOU ASSUMED I DID. :roll_eyes:

You are simply mad at how I drive the car. :dracthyr_tea:

  • I clearly state the parameters of my test.
  • Arahgon still demands logs as evidence. :dracthyr_crylaugh:

Evidence is a fair ask. Will a youtube video suffice?

  • youtubecom/watch?v=qRu70puOv2Y

Read the test observation/question again. You cannot be this dense, Arahgon. :dracthyr_sweat:

No one has been trying to improve or make better tests, Arahgon. You are flat out lying now because we have proof in these threads of everyone claiming that my test has no value whatsoever and is invalid, or making false equivalences and incomparable suggestions.

Again, if you read the test observation/question, you will know why it was conducted. :dracthyr_uwahh_animated:

Yes, it is, Arahgon. The data is clearly showing that we are both correct in certain ways. You, however, are weaponizing selective metrics and making false equivalent claims without looking at all the evidence. :dracthyr_tea:

You need to be very specific when making these claims, especially when you say that I broke my own terms. Otherwise, you have no argument. :dracthyr_tea:

Sorry to burst your bubble, bub, but I do indeed put a lot of effort into my replies because I, unlike YOU, argue in good faith. :dracthyr_tea:

I never said I want to remove other people’s enjoyment of a spec. You have no proof of this. If you did, you would quote me on it. :dracthyr_tea:

You are generalizing ‘competitive’ quite a lot. You need to separate and specify exactly which ‘competitive’ mode you are arguing for, rather than making broad stroke arguments. :dracthyr_tea:

Coping and seething because you are wrong once again. :roll_eyes:

Yes, I acknowledge that Bestial Wrath is a slightly different damage amp than Trueshot and Takedown, but its core function is still the same: it boosts damage. It does not change one clear fact:

  • Having a weak steady-state does not feel good and more frequent burst windows do not fix this issue.

That would imply they found an issue with Bestial Wrath itself, which is not the case, Arahgon. Blizzard specified the issue in their blue post:

Now, read it with me. I believe in you.

  • Felt a bit weak outside of Bestial Wrath.
  • Increasing their steady-state damage.

This means: Bestial Wrath was not the issue. Baseline damage was the issue. :dracthyr_tea:

So, what have we learned from this exchange? :thinking:

  • Arahgon tries very hard to convince players who use non-optimal builds that their playstyle is wrong’.
  • He uses selective evidence while ignoring multiple other data sets which weaken his argument/claims.
  • He makes far reaching assumptions without providing evidence himself.
  • He continuously pivots arguments and uses incomparable examples.
  • And worse of all, he refuses to acknowledge other player’s playstyles as being competent, while actively degrading them. :dracthyr_sweat:

Honestly, Arahgon, I just want you to apologies for claiming ‘You do not know how to play your class’, when the raid log clearly shows evidence weakening your statement.

:dracthyr_shrug:

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