So is hunter the worst pure dps?

Be that as it may, I find that anecdotal evidence tends to not be worth a whole lot in terms of hard numbers and statistics.

Whether you managed to beat some MM hunters on damage, or whether BMs/SVs beat you when you’re playing as MM, is a pool that is way too small to take any readings/data from, or at least, make any decisions based on those readings alone.

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The problem is that “hybrids can switch and find success” is basically a fallacy.

Let’s say I’m playing an Elemental Shaman and they just happen to suck, but Resto Shaman is good so I could switch to get better performance, right? Wrong. An extra healer makes no sense. For me to switch to resto, one of the healers would need to switch into dps. Let’s say a Resto Druid going Boomkin. But then we’re both screwed if I don’t like to heal and the druid doesn’t like to dps. Having both switch to better performing specs is likely to end with worse healing and worse dps because we’re both bad at it, while also ruining both of our fun.

Switching roles is not something you can just do on the fly unless you’re a super hardcore pro. If I switched roles, it would take maybe a month to switch my gear to optimal stats and practice enough to be decent at my offspec. External systems like Legendaries and Covenants make it even worse.

And of course, switching to tank is way harder because they have even more limited spots.

So being hybrid doesn’t give those classes the power to be always awesome. Furthermore, making pure dps classes always top would be terrible for the game. Hunters, Rogues, Warlocks and Mages would always be top then, and the all the hybrid dps specs would be worthless, making their hybrid status actually a dps loss in all cases, which would turn all hybrid classes into only healers or tanks. So Hybrids need to have competitive dps otherwise they’re not actually hybrids.

Sure this is true within a guild. Not everyone is in a guild though? Not everyone raids or does M+ in a guild or even with a group of friends. So sure a guild may have some issue sliding people around if someone’s spec is total garbage. Someone who pugs content is not going to be so hampered by this, now are they?

Long story short, even in guilds a hybrid class has more potential options if their class sucks at one of their available roles, where as pure dps classes do not. If all three specs on a pure dps class suck, there is no recourse to that class really other than to hope to get into or be with a guild that will take pity on them, or to completely reroll, which will take longer than the hybrid switching from dps to healer, etc.

True, but if you’re not in a guild then you’re not doing mythic raids of super high keys, so what’s the problem with not being the strongest min-maxer? The hardest content in the game is not puggable. And the rest of the content doesn’t require you to be flavor of the month.

How do you figure this is true exactly? What do guilds have that pugs can’t have?

I sometimes top my raid group, but usually I’m a little below some other classes - if I play MM. It’s not drastic enough to be concerned about.

The sad part is that you only have one spec that’s really competitive. MM is good for most content. BM is good for soloing. SV is not good for anything. That’s not just a Hunter story though. That’s all on the dev team.

Also, if you’re doing Arena right now, Hunters feel pretty week after their initial blip following the start of the season. After people got geared and MM got nerfed, I feel like a target dummy. I’m not that good at Arena, so your mileage may vary.

Despite all that, it’s still my favorite class, and this Hunter will always be my main.

That’s definitely where the issue lies. People THINK a spec is bad because of what people are finding from a source. So the lack of any info for Beast Mastery and Survival is so small in comparison to others.

That being said…it still opens up that the two specs aren’t bad, just not enough to play them and likely not giving enough information. The potential IS there.

Nearly 40% of the hunter population plays BM.

Statistics - wowranks.io

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MM started out strong but I think it’s just because we scaled better? Many classes are performing better now . Which means TIME TO SWITCH!

in response to the title… yes.

worst class in pvp, low end for raiding now as others get gear and just having a high ilvl weapon doesn’t bump up us 5-6 spots. dungeons we’re middle of the pack but other classes have utility that isn’t feign death and do more damage without positioning requirements.

The main thing guilds have that pugs don’t is a consistent level of experience across all the players in the raid.

In a guild raid you can guarantee that everybody in the raid has experience dealing with every boss, because they’re the same people every week doing the same fights. Having random players in a pug means their level of experience is also random.

Some bosses are just hard. Being a good player is not enough. You need coordination of the whole group, and that requires everyone to have practice pulling that boss. You’ll need a hundred wipes or more to learn the fight properly and distribute tasks perfectly. Winging it doesn’t work. In a guild, every week you gain more knowledge and practice so everyone gets better at it over time. In a pug every week you get a different set of people with random knowledge and experience so they can’t really progress against hard bosses.

Guess what for the 2 xpacs leading up to SL that is exactly what us MM players did.

MM may be the meta hunter spec right now but a lot of us were playing it when it was the New Orleans Saints pre Drew Breese era spec . In other words when it was the New Orleans Ain’ts spec .

Oh and sorry to any Saints fans I was rooting for them to go all the way .

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In short, again, yes you can play either BM or SV through all content and all difficulties and get through it just fine.

If you intend to push deep into mythic raiding or high M+, then finding guilds/groups that want to bring you will most likely be the tricky part. It depends a bit on the current progress of the team you’re joining ofc. Where they’re at as well.


Having said the above, if the goal is to have specs balanced(performance/numbers), are BM and SV fine? Are we equal to that of the others(most)?

No. Not even if you take into account the skewed logs with a certain level of misinformation(in terms of actual balance) in them.

Yeah, nah.

This is just wrong.

BM and Survival are awful specs. You can parse 100 as BM and be beaten by an MM parsing 70. That’s all there is to it really.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

BM is actually way more attracive than MM in a raid environment. It’s always the go-to spec if its damage is competitive because of its mobility.

But BM’s damage is not in any way competitive. It’s the worst spec in the game by a fair margin.

or you’re awful at MM. BM should never beat MM unless you’re bad.

So, you think the thousands of fights we have in logs are too small a sample size, but your singular experiences of being beaten by BM is proof that they are fine? You cant make this stuff up…

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Don’t deny yourself the fun of playing a hunter just because of bad dps. I still get invited to M+ and my guild lets me raid with them. I am not having a terrible experience playing BM at all. A few issues that could be fixed, but overall, still fun. It’s all about how you craft your own experience.

If she is doing “good” as a BM hunter in raid then that raid is pure trash… BM hunters suck and they are always at the bottom of the meters and carrying them every night is annoying as hell to the other raiders playing the correct spec of the class. Her guild must be poop sauce if shes doing “good” LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Who cares? If her guild is progressing with the content they want to do, then what is there to be mad about? Yeah, BM does suck for damage at high end content, but unless a fight is a pure DPS check, there are other mechanics to consider. I was in a small guild back in Legion - a lot of new players, not the greatest damage, a lot of improvised pugging to fill spots - and our guild was number 2 or 3 on our server for heroic progression before it was dissolved (this was before the server merge, so members left for more populated servers), just because we stuck with it and people did mechanics. Progress is all relative to your server group.

Wow you a true Richard. BM may not be at the best point now but if a person knows how to play their spec they should do fine.

Right now that guild (not the one this toon is in ) is 6/10 heroic so I’d say they are doing ok.

Anyways you have no room to talk . Looks like none of you toons have stepped into SL raids and most have done raids post expansion . ( Achievements will show if you’ve done raids on any toons even forum troll toons like this one)