So is hunter the worst pure dps?

Hey guys i was planning in leveling up my hunter and well…

i went to warcraft logs and i see 2 hunter specs at the bottom (surv and BM)

and MM is just in middle

so… why i dont see you guys asking for some buffs looks like (for me) that the class needs some help

ofc im no longer planning on leveling up my hunter but im kinda sad of that , i wanted a hunter alt this xp i even used my free lvl up to 50 : (


Just level one up have some fun . even middle of the pack isn’t that bad unless you are some World first competitive raider that streams .


honestly fav class.

i mean i main frost dk so … i know its dine to be in the middle

but does it feel right for you 2 of the hunter specs are trash tier?
you only have 1 spec to play pretty much

I have friend in one of the guilds i am in . She is heroic raiding and doing good as BM and I am currently a lfr hero . So once again have some fun , roll a hunter and see how you like it .

Look around for a few more minutes. Plenty of threads talking about BM sucking. Survival… well that’s it’s own can of worms. BM does need a buff. Survival needs… something. But as an MM main since Vanilla, I am not qualified to really talk about what either of those specs need in terms of buffs.

MM doesn’t really need buffs so much as it just needs a stupid nerf reverted, at least as far as damage goes. There are some other things that MM needs like better survivability.


I don’t get why people are so obsessed about “pure dps” classes.

The worst dps classes right now are Warriors and Demon Hunters. So what if they can tank? They can’t just switch to tank if their raid already has 2 tanks. They do bring good raid buffs, but you only ever need 1 of each.

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Oh we do ask for buffs friend, there is multiple BM post that explains the issues with our spec, one of which is a buff to kill command or a buff to our mastery either would work but blizzard has been dead silent. Not to mention a buff to our mastery would make our baseline aoe stronger which is an area that we are lacking atm.

There has been a few post talking about the BM legos as well how most of them are useless or way too rng based. However i think those changes will wait until a big patch like 9.1 before it will happen but the ones about kill command or the mastery is a quick and easy fix they could do.

I Haven’t seen much post talking about our talents except the ones like stomp breaking ccs in pvp but yeah our talents will need to be looked at very soon too. Like our tier 15, 25, 35 and 45 needs a serious look at. I personally think Thrill of the hunt at 35 shouldve been turned into a baseline when the prepatch hit and instead they could have made something new like they did with another talent on that tier otherwise they will have to seriously balance our secondary stats. For tier 45 barrage shouldn’t even be a talent for bm. That ability used to be something that all hunters could get but ever since legion they have screwed with that move so much that they should just give that to the one spec that uses power range skill aka MM. As for 25 and 15 the talents just dont pair that well together. At 25, you have 2 abilitys that can help us maintain frenzy better and then you have 1 that doesn’t do that, its just a cleave option. Finally for 15, blizzard needs to balance animal companion and killer instinct a little bit but they either need to find something to replace dire beast or find a way to make that ability useful because i haven’t seen that talent being pick for competitive dps ever since its been introduce.

As for the pvp situation i believe its mostly cause by the current meta where most specs can burst pets within seconds.

Finally survival shares a little bit of the same issues as bm atm in pvp but for their situation in pve they would need to do the highest dps in the game for people to even consider them for raids because they lack what most other melee can bring in a raid. As for the mythic + area they are fine but they suffer from the meta perspective that it currently has on top of when people are looking for a hunter in groups they usually look for a range one.


There is no point asking for MM buffs, we got a premature nerf based on people whining about unranked PvP when the best gear available was like 184, and that’s not likely to be reverted until at least 9.1 if ever.

Such as it is for MM in every expansion since TBC.


You should understand that the scores your looking at on WoW logs are based on average aggregate data from logged kills. You have 99k logged for MM hunters. BM has around 12k and Survival dose not even have 500 loggings. Part of this skews the logs against BM and Surv. The average players for BM are not doing well/ BM is middle of the road. Very consistent but falls far behind when you make slight mistakes in your rotation. Survival is not awful but not amazing and its competing for a melee DPS spot in a tire where WW monk is great Ret paladin isn’t bad and Unholy dk is quite good. In addition MM is just way better then ether option in a wide array of situations.

You will see it lower on the rankings because:

  1. Around 80% of Hunters are playing MM.

  2. Majority players not playing MM are not playing seriously and do not care about there performance.

BM and Surv are not awful specs and they are viable but in a raid environment they are less attractive them MM and thus are viewed as “dumpster specs”

BM has the advantage of being a RDPS that plays like a melee spec and can always move. Survival has some tools to help it increase its uptime when other melee cannot but outside of that an MM hunter can do everything they can do minus a 5 second stun.

I am not saying non of these need adjustment in fact all 3 specs need legendary reworks and Talent tuning/ reworks. But look at any spec in Shadowlands right now and tell me they don’t need a large amount of adjustments to make them more inline with others in there respective role.

TBH this class balancing is worse then when they used a hacksaw at the end of legion to remove artifacts and left some specs like Elemental shaman dead to the world XD

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who else think that 20% dmg reduce is like a joke, it literally did not fix the problem.
I am getting more and more angry at Blizzard these days. For them to kept ignoring us.


i kinda get your point but my guess is that people playing BM or Surv are doing it because they are a hard lovers of the spec and are trying to make it viable.

what im trying to say is that someone plays low performing classes are usually better in that spec than those playing the “meta” spect just because its performing well, which translates in the spec showing better performance that it would if the masses were playing it.


Its funny exchange Hunter specs for Mage specs and you have the same threads on the Mage forum. Fire is good and Frost/Arcane are bad so Mages are worst pure DPS. It seems every “Pure” DPS class only has 1 good raiding spec…

Mages being Mages.

By no objective measure are they the worst pure. They’re either second best, or if we’re bringing secondary specs into this, the best pure DPS with the highest average spec ranking among their other two specs.

Some are much, much more “good” than others. The data:
(Warlocks) Affliction = #2 / Demonology = #10 / Destruction = #20 / Average spec rank = 10.2. Best spec surpasses 91.66% of other specs.

(Mages) Fire = #3 / Arcane = #13 / Frost = #14 / Average spec rank = 10. Best spec surpasses 87.5% of other specs.

(Rogues) Outlaw = #7 / Subtlety = #15 / Assassination = #22 / Average spec rank = 14.6. Best spec surpasses 70.83% of other specs.

(Hunters) Marksman = #12 / Beast Mastery = #23 / Survival = #24 / Average spec rank 19.66. Best spec surpasses 50% of other specs.

You know, food for thought.


You’re confusing the numbers with the enjoyment one gets out of playing the class.

Just because a spec pulls awful numbers (objective result) doesn’t mean the spec is awful (subjective result). The advice is to play the spec you like, rather than whatever has the best numbers. If you chase the fun in getting good at a spec you like, eventually it will pay off. If you’re just chasing the numbers…well, get ready to re-learn a new spec with every major content patch.


numbers shows everything, you can’t argue with that.

Hunter is so unbalanced and falling


There’s no avoiding a “Worst DPS” class in WOW. Someone always has to be top, and someone always has to be bottom. The hope is that top and bottom are close enough in performance, that players can choose to play what is fun to them. The Hybrid tax philosophy ‘was’ that pure DPS classes will never be top tank or healer, in a game where performance is constantly measured, quoted, and in some AOTC content, used as a reason to impose specs on players. So, if you’re playing a pure DPS class, and you have NO viable high-performance options, you can’t just respec, you have to reroll. This sentiment remains. If you’re playing a pure DPS class like a Hunter and you have 3 underperforming specs, well, you might find yourself SoL when it comes to AOTC content. Whereas a Hybrid class might find success by trying a different role. Personally, I also play Warrior. I don’t like tanking on my warrior, so it doesn’t feel like a good ‘Hybrid’ option to me. Thing is, I’ve mained Hunter for over a decade, and having to switch mains if Hunter had no viable specs, would be a huge failure on Blizzard’s part.

I mean, DH DPS might be trailing right now, but DH Tanks sure aren’t complaining (I mean, they probably are… “They’ve sacrificed everything, what have you given?”). You can have your class fantasy, if you just decide to DPS from the front of the mob, instead of the back.

I’m not saying I agree with the old ‘Hybrid Tax’ sentiment, I’m just saying what it was, and why it existed, and why some people still feel like a pure dps class, should always be viable as pure dps. I think blizzard’s goal should always be that EVERY class/spec is viable, it’s just that Pure DPS not being able to compete for top dps, means the entire class is a fail. Hybrids can at least win in other ways, so Blizzard can go spin those plates.


Beast Master is fine and Survival Hunter also is doing fine too. At least in PvE. Often those that ask are usually within PvP because I can agree that they have nothing compared to Marksmanship Hunters.

I actually ran into both BM and Survival who happened to do a hell of a lot better than I did on my Hunter as Marksmanship for sure. So, its probably just the understanding of the specialization.

Not entirely sure what you mean by “fine” but…

Can you play as either BM or SV and get through all content? Yes.

Are we quite a bit behind the top performers? Yes.

It’s not as bad as what some people are pointing towards, based on logs for example, but we could most certainly see some plain percentage buffs across the board(BM/SV) without it heavily messing with the top. 5-7% buffs in general, or perhaps some targeted buffs to specific abilities/effects, or a combination of the lot, would be enough to close the gaps.

Some say that we need numbers closer to 15%, which certainly isn’t the case here.


Fine as fine. Yes, they are not in a perfect spot compare to Marksmanship or other classes. As I stated before, I’ve ran into both Survival and Beast Mastery that actually out performed me somehow. Could be sheer luck but the consistency so far with the particular players seem to point they are capable of doing better.