The Ogres were mages. They had an empire and you want to tell us you can’t work with such a force? Or the Arakkoa? Really?
I would 100% try diplomacy, even if it would take hundreds of years, because the alternative means death. Not only for my people, but for every other civilization on the planet, because of me and my people.
I would know we can teach the others and we have a responsibility to at least informing them what’s going to happen to them. At the very least.
More so: United with the help of others, the survival changes are way higher.
The writing in this case was simply stupid. The Draenei didn’t act because the writers needed the Ors to kill them, to reach WC1. There is no logic and no excuse for such terrible story telling.
This thread is the proof anyone needs to realize what’s wrong with the story. Between rationalizing killing children, riding the fence on inaction, and a total disregard for plot contribution at the expense of ego.
Right, that’s sort of my point. If the Draenei truly knew that they were stuck (and that they would not have opportunity to run when the time came for them to need to) … then the only possible reason I can think of for them to not take the risk of trying to prepare the indigenous for what is to come (and leave the indigenous and themselves entirely open to the greater risk of the locals being used against them) … was they truly believed they had escaped. And after 14k years of running with no resolution with KJ … that is an unbelievably naïve and dangerous thing to believe. Its downright suicidal.
And its not as if the Orcs were incapable of either organizing or learning. While Legion and Garrosh manipulated them for their own means, both proved entirely the opposite. That Orcs advance explosively if given the resources and guidance. On top of this, while the individual clans were largely independent … they did adhere to the wisdom of a single clan. The Shadowmoon. A group that (before Blizz forgot what they wrote) had come to condemn the use of Void “because of its corruptive influence, and negative impact on the elements and ancestral spirits”. A fact even KJ was aware enough to exploit.
So, the Draenei (for Hundreds of Years) took the risk that “The Deciever” and the man who has a personal grudge against them (and who’s primary job within the Legion was to find worlds and corrupt those upon them) … would not find them and do his actual job? In service of his personal vendetta? So … rather than taking the risk to turn the locals of Draenor into Allies … they took the greater risk of having them turned into enemies; because they insanely believed they had finally (after 14k years) escaped him.
You do all three of those things. They’re simple concepts when I say them but as soon as you need to cover yourself up with excuses, you try to convolute as much as you can. For the objective of blaming, and victimhood.
Whatever makes you feel better.
I not once did this and you didn’t address any of my points. Have fun having a circle jerk conversation with yourself.
I’m not sure if I fully agree with your take, but you could be right about Tyrande. I think War Crimes did her dirty. The whole concept of the trial was also weird to me. So there is that.
Is there evidence they didn’t? Are the Ogres known for interacting with races who don’t subjugate the Ogres themselves? One last time, by the way. Your words.
Warcraft 1 existed long before the Draenei ever did. Back then the Horde were just simply just blood thirsty monsters.
The same could be said for the orcs, People keep claiming that the draenei should have informed the Orcs. Yet as people have pointed out the Orcs were highly suspicious and guarded when it came to their beleifs. The Draenei had no idea that the legion was tricking the orcs.
However the Orcs never sought out the draenei to ask them why their spirits wanted them dead. No they just attacked them. Only when Dranosh and Ogrim were rescued did Velen try to explain what was happening and they threatened to kill him.
Regarding the Other races, Seems like in this universe(not AU) they were already on the Decline there was no Ogre empire and they were ruled by the Gronn who enslaved them.
Yes. Chronicles. The Draenei didn’t warn anyone.
So why was this ok?
That’s exactly the point. They had to reach WC1. so it had to happen, because Blizzard decided the Orcs needed fuel.
Wait what? What? The Orcs did not know about the Dreanei. The Draenei were a new people to them and on Draenor everything tried to kill Orcs. The Orcs couldn’t warn the Dreanei about something they didn’t know about.
I don’t get this point. This was on the Dreanei.
Like you said, their interaction was very limited and Gul’dans grip was already to strong at this point. Say thanks to the Legion.
The Draenei could have warned them, but no.
They were on the decline. However the Ogres (at the very least, if not the Arakkoa too) had still strongholds and the Dreanei arrived hundreds of years ago. They saw some better times for them. There is really no moral excuse for not warning anyone, no matter in what state they are.
And no, this doesn’t mean the Draenei are super evil or anything. It just mean they are flawed, like everyone else and it’s stupid to ignore this.
It’s in my view also a case of bad writing, even though perhaps not fully unrealistic. You would think someone would say something during 100’s of years though.
The Frostwolves,including Durotan nearly killed Valen and his group on sight. None of the orc tribes had any history of friendship or even willingness to communicate.
You think if they had warned the Orcs things would have gone differently? You do realise Guldan is a thing and as soon as he found out about them he would have reached out to the Legion and brought them down on Draenor.
The reason they used the orcs was because they thought they were being subtle and wanted to catch the Draenei unaware as they didn’t want them to flee. As soon as they realised they couldn’t run they would have attacked in full force and wiped out everything on the planet.
You clearly have not read Rise of the Horde. They had no mages, and their only spellcasters were shaman. Nor were they united they were roaming tribes that had the usual conflicts over resources. It was the formation of the Horde by Ner’zhul that was the establishment of a united orc people.
We don’t know. But it could have gone very different and with hundreds of years in preparation, perhaps the Draenei could have moved on and even take some Orcs (and who ever) with them on their journey, or whatever.
More so: The Lightforged are the perfect example of what was possible. They took in races that were attacked by the Legion (in lore at least).
Speculation so that further demonization of victims can fit neatly into a box. It’s like he’s checking off a list of non-existent factors to justify an atrocity.
So the Draenei should have indoctrinated Every Race on the planet into an army. That would make them no better than the Legion
Boy guess the horde have no reason to hate the Lightbound and yrel then and should welcome her with open arms and all worship the light. I mean she only wants to prepare all the races to fight the void.
There were no lightforged among the Draenei on MU Draenor. Presumably hey had no such knowledge about lightforging or lightbinding until whatever happened with YRel, post Warlords.
Not indoctrinated. You know that’s not what I’m arguing for. That’s also not what the Lightforged did. But if the Dreanei did this, it would have given them a fighting chance and I bet Vuldezi would love Lighbound Draenor. Again: No I’m not arguing for indoctrination and you know this, it’s very clear in my posts.
Only the Mag’har from the MU.
I know. I’m not saying Lightforged Dreanei were on Draenor, or force the Light upon everyone on Draenor. What is it with reading those things in to my arguments from Alliance posters? oO
They are even more prof, that Draenei can work with other races and the argument of not telling anyone doesn’t even hold up in universe. As nonsensical the argument is in the first place.