Progression isn’t linear, cutting levels in half doesn’t cut stats neatly in half.
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They are still using the old quest and world style from vanilla, while it did it’s job at the time. It doesn’t stand the test of time at least I don’t believe so. They need to update the quests and the world with it. I feel disconnected with the world while I level, and that makes me not want to level.
All I do is pick up quests kill the mobs collect their fur and escort. To me that doesn’t give me a sense that I am part of the world. Again it was good for when it launched, but needs an overhaul.
And until they fix that aspect of leveling I do not believe a level squish will fix anything regarding leveling in WoW
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When I did the quest for my dwarf heritage armor Brann told be about Ignis I was excited because I raided then fought him, but my excitement fell off quickly when Ignis didn’t know my char or Brann talked about my time there. That showed I was not part of the world, and made be feel even more disconnected with the World of Warcraft. Everything I have done meant nothing, I am not part of the world yet it is trying to say I am, but not showing that I am.
I bet this squish will break alot of items and systems, just like the stat squish did. Hopefully Classic will save us from retail before then.
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Nice try at moving the goal posts.
If I talked at all about any of this “being removed” by the level squish, you’d have a point. You don’t. Once again, I said (in the first post you are referring to):
and followed up with:
This is 100% relevant to your argument in more ways then one. You, by your own admission skip around the content without playing it through. That leads to a disjointed story, an incomplete narrative, etc. Even if they left the vanilla story intact, you would see this. That’s not on the devs, that’s on you.
Because. You. Chose. To. Skip. The. Content.
Again, maybe you should actually give it a complete play through before you actually call it “trash.”
It would be like saying you hate a place you’d never been to, or at best skimmed the travel brochure to.
OR
To use my earlier comparison: to say it of a book/movie series you decided to start on the final one (and/or skipped randomly around the series) and decided to complain “it didn’t make sense”!
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If you consider progression through ancient content as “progression,” maybe. But that’s like saying you ordered French fires, a hamburger and a milkshake, separately and in that order, from McDonald’s and “progressed” through dinner from appetizer to dessert, when all you really did was buy a Happy Meal.
“Progression” that matters is narrowly defined: End-game content in whatever the most recent expansion is. That means raids, maybe M+ keys or the very highest levels of PvP. The “progression” in question is item level or an achievement award. Hitting level 42 on a mage and getting Invisibility is just a French fry in the Happy Meal at that point.
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15 years isn’t “ancient.”
Yeesh, the US (the country actiblizz is located in) is barely nearing 250 years old.
Try again.
Also, your analogy is really bad.
Only if you are a rush to end game person. Then your blinders cause you to miss the content in the rest of the game. A bit like the pvp only crowd. I imagine someone who only did pet battle would say the same thing…but we would all quickly point out the error of their ways and tell them to play the rest of the game before they said “the game is trash! it needs to be completely overhauled! NOW!”
Not to mention the fact that you want to leave it “narrowly defined” because it excludes the progression and growth of a character that occurs as they grow in power over the course of the campaign to that “end game” you’re rushing towards. You know, the “RPG” part that gets trampled on the these squishes the devs keep dumping in the game that calling a hot mess would be an insult to hot messes.
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In the world of video games, 15 years is ancient. Not to mention that in “WoW years,” what does that 15 years translate into? Thirty? Forty?
Also, my analogy isn’t “bad,” you just didn’t like it because it doesn’t say what you want it to.
As for the rest, if you told me you were an RP’er up front I would have understood better. If you want to RP, that’s your business and I hope you like it. I have nothing against the RP community at all but that doesn’t mean “progression” has to be defined in RP terms when most of the player base doesn’t play that way. “Progression and growth of a character” means less once the next xpac comes out because by that time, the older content has been nerfed over and over in order to speed new players and alt-runners to max level with all due speed. Yes, it means a lot less to get to 20 in Elwynn today than it did 15 years ago. That’s part of the reason you’re getting WoW Classic, for the people who can’t move on past what the game used to be but no longer is.
As the game opens up to level 70, then 80, then 90, etc., “progression” is expected to keep up with that. I’m not go-go-going to end content, either. I’m currently leveling four alts in the 40-70 range and learning how to play them. I’m probably not going to finish the second raid even on Normal. But that doesn’t mean 40-70 is where “progression” is. If I want to “progress,” that means in terms of how good I am against the game’s best challenges. Thinking of how I “progress as a character” when I’m running in Westfall means nothing outside of my own imagination. I prefer to play against measurable metrics.
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Level squish doesn’t change the content or the story, so your point is moot.
Now you’re just throwing anything at the wall and hoping something will stick. It won’t work.
It’s not my analogy. I don’t need it to say anything…YOU do. It was a bad analogy.
I’ll give you three guesses what the RPG in MMORPG stand for. Internet searching is allowed. We’ll wait.
The rest of your paragraph is based on faulty assumptions and pejoratives against the RP community. When you have to open with “I have nothing against…” you know you’re about to hear someone be insulted.
And no, I don’t RP. However, wow is in the genre which means we all do play a character to some extent whether we like it or not. One of those conventions is the progression of characters from the lowly guy who can only deal with minor threats (boars in the forest) to the higher level threats facing the realm (in this setting, it was the burning legion…now it’s the void lords [snicker]).
When the devs introduce scaling, squishing, etc which are precurers to removing those features altogether it homogenizes core parts of the characters’ progression arc. When the boars you killed in the forest at the beginning of your story suddenly becomes as powerful as the minions you face outside the final castle, it ruins the sense of accomplishment you felt as you gained in power (levels) as you progressed through your character’s story.
Removing levels altogether (because let’s face it, that’s the only way that will fix this because squish after squish won’t solve this, as the multiple stat squishes haven’t solved anything to date have shown in other areas) will kill any real sense of progression or story for your character at all. You might as well be a RTS unit. That isn’t to knock RTS games, because they are fun and people play them (I play them on occasion).
Wow was never meant to be one of those games. It was and always will be an MMORPG. Remove the RPG from it, and it will finally die in ignoble death.
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Whatever, Wanobi. You say you don’t RP, but you’re determined I’m going to address RPG and what it means to the game. Moreover, you can’t find a “pejorative” against the RP community – because I didn’t use one. I said what I meant the first time: I’m glad the RP community has a place in the game. It just isn’t my place and that’s as much my choice as RP is theirs.
And then you start making up your own facts: “The bears you killed at the (beginning) of your story” didn’t get to be as powerful as the “minions outside the final castle.” They jumped to level 60. You’re now 120. If you’re 120 and do anything but one-shot a level 60 mob, you might want to confirm your rotation and abilities.
Also, the analogy still fits and it cracks me up that you’re so upset by it. You ready for dessert yet?
Clearly, you didn’t look up what the “RPG” in MMORPG means.
It’s right there.
M-M-O-R-P-G
For those that don’t know:
pejorative
Definition of pejorativea word or phrase that has negative connotations or that is intended to disparage or belittle : a pejorative word or phrase
source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pejorative
No, it was boars. You can’t even get the basic facts straight. Try reading the post next time. Then you claim scaling only goes to 60. Interesting, because scaling is a lot higher than that…it goes all the way to max level. Talk about “making up your own facts.”
The only one who seems to be upset here is you, which is obvious by your projection (the classic “umad” from nowhere), the clear and obvious mistakes in narrative (bears), the insults to RP crowd (which I pointed out I don’t even belong to, but that RPG is a core part of the game), and you can’t keep a consistent story.
In short, you are engaging in ad hominem. It shows your position is an untenable one when your argument is a weak one so you decide to attack the person rather than debate their position.
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Anyone seriously considering quitting because of a level squish isn’t someone that should be taken seriously at all.
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Anyone who doesn’t realize the game breaking ramifications of a level squish, especially in light of how poorly they have done current squishes, isn’t someone that should be taken seriously at all.
Fixed it for you!
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You’re going to make me cancel my sub Blizz. I earned those levels. They mean things to me. This is also a broken solution. Just cut the amount of time it takes to level. This is really, really dumb and isn’t going to truly fix things. I’ve been a loyal subscriber for 10 years now and not once have I let me sub lapse, not even in drought periods but after the portal removal, some of the other things said, and now this. You are going in the wrong direction and I’m just not going to fight you anymore. I don’t have time. I have a life I didn’t have 10 years ago. I’m not going to deal with this when I can take my money elsewhere. I’ve spent several thousand dollars on game-time, store items, services, gear, etc and I would happily have spent thousands more in the years to come but with things like this you’re signalling loud and clear you don’t care. You don’t value me and furthermore you have no clue what you’re doing.
It’s frustrating and sad to see this happening and to write this out but I guess all things come to an end.
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You play the game you want to play, I’ll play the one I want to play. I don’t pet battle, PvP or RP. No one is required to play all facets of the game.
There, fixed that for you.
I misspelled one. You spelled “beginning” as “begging” earlier (which is why I had to correct it when I quoted you, but I didn’t make a big deal over it since, you know … it wasn’t germane to the argument), so now we’re even. Since your argument has now devolved into copy editing, you’re about thisclose to formally losing whatever point you were trying to make. Copy editing is sort of known around the Internet as the manifestation of a desperate argument.
Upset? One of us is threatening to quit and claiming the sky is falling over a level squish. The other is playing the game he wants to play and actually “progressing.” My story hasn’t changed a bit since the start; I’m pretty happy with the retail concept, although I do see places it can improve.
As for your closing paragraph, you’re labeling in an attempt to get out of a defensive position necessitated by the weakness of your own argument. Ad hominem sort of dictates that I substitute name-calling for debate, which I’ve been very careful not to do so as not to give you an excuse to do exactly what you are now trying to get away with. If observing that you seem to care an awful lot about the RP elements of the game (as evidenced by your incessant highlighting of the letters “RPG” as if you were able to force anyone to partake of that part of the game) equals “ad hominem” in your mind, then you need to spend a little more time in that dictionary you were flipping through.
In summary, your argument about a level squish went over the top very early on, even before I responded to you. You could have made a defensible position for yourself but you’ve gone so overboard on what you see the consequences might be that you’re a bit beyond the logical pale. Instead of walking it back, you’re doubling down against anyone who disagrees. And when you can’t turn them, you deflect and try to make it all about personal attacks you perceive people are throwing at you. That gets real close to some ego-attachment issues.
I’m not sure whether you are accustomed to baiting people in with those tactics, or whether you actually do have an E-A issue going on here but either way, I’m not your huckleberry if that’s what you’re trying to do. The argument simply isn’t that important. In the end, Blizzard has said you’re going to get a level squish, so it’s coming. The best thing to do would be to find a way to help steer the path of that change rather than ignite over it. The worst thing would be to continue to try to resuscitate this beaten-to-death argument over RP(G) issues that no one is interested in entertaining.
Then you can’t complain about the story being a jumbled mess, or the lack of content in the game.
At least if you want to sound credible.
It’s like the people who don’t vote…but want to complain about the state their country is in.
Not required…but if someone wants to talk about the game or it’s story being “trash” they should probably play through it in its entirety first. Just like I would encourage someone to actually read and/or watch a movie series in its entirety before making the same judgment.
More ad hominem. Made funny because completely falsifying the quote in that manner erases any point you were trying to make.
They are completely different animals. +1 for catching the autocorrect problem I missed (interesting how you DID make a big deal about it even before I brought up the boar/bear thing…so it looks like you started this whole copy editing thing, so what’s that say the strength of YOUR position?). Also, the “o” and “e” are nearly on opposite sides of the keyboard, so this is not a misspell, you weren’t paying attention to what was on the screen. Interesting how you make a point about devolving into copyediting…right after you make a huge point about copy editing.
Where did I threaten to quit? You can’t even keep your facts straight. Looks like you’re
Your last two paragraphs are just arm chair psychiatry (and more use of “overboard” than a bad pirate movie), which is thinly veiled ad hominem.
You aren’t arguing facts, you’re just making personal attacks. Add that to the trolling and baiting, and you have a trifecta of coc violations.
It’s the genre of the game, and a core feature of the mechanics that are built into it. You can try to obfuscate, evade, and pretend it doesn’t exist all you’d like…but it doesn’t change the fact that by your own admission you don’t play through the story in its entirety. That’s fine, it’s your personal choice and you are welcome to it.
What is not fine, is to impose what is your PERCEPTION (that the story and/or game is “trash”) because of that personal choice on everyone else because you chose to play it a certain way.
It would be akin to a pvp player calling for the rest of the game to be remade into pvp only mode and everything changed to suit their pvp only world view because “the game in it’s current state is trash.” No, it would be because they only chose to play a small part of it. Their personal choices shouldn’t negatively impact the playerbase, and if they are bored in their limited sphere of play…they should probably play more of the game. At the very least, if they still thought the game and/or story was “trash” people could take their opinion seriously.
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I’m not going to bother with the Inspector Clueso-esque sleuth job on what you think is being said in the above paragraphs except to say this: You are now so completely turned around, looking for a way to end this while saving face, that you are down to measuring the distance between keys on a keyboard. Well done.
Instead, I want to focus on this little gem, in which your perception of “progression” – the only such person in the thread with that particular flavor of perception, at that – is what you would like to see foisted upon the player base even in the face of the reality that the “progression” you want can no longer happen. New players are being asked to play more and more levels to get through all the stories with each new set of stories added. So either we shorten the leveling period (so they don’t arrive at end game in a matter of years), or in the name of “progression,” we force them to take the same pace the rest of us did who did all the old content when it was current, and hope they don’t quit out of frustration (not to mention they’ll never get at-level groups together for old raids, so the storylines contained therein, they will never see until they can go back and cheese it as a higher-level character).
This particular elephant has been kicking down the door of the room since probably MoP. If you had stuck to a criticism of how former level/ability/XP squishes had been handled, you’d probably get some agreement on it, especially the pruning of “flavor abilities.” But you’re well beyond that with all the “progression” and “RPG” fixation by now.
In closing, if you want to see ad hominem, I can do that for you so you’ll know the difference. If you want to run tell teacher on me, go ahead. There may be no more validation of my “armchair” analysis of your argument than you bringing up the “trifecta of coc violations” threat, which is what kids do on the playground when they realize they’re not going to be able to stamp their feet hard enough to get their way. This is fast creeping from simple ego-attachment behavior to full-blown narcissism on your part.
And with that, I’ll let you have the last word on this. Whether I actually come back to read it … well, I guess that depends on whether I want to continue this particular “role playing game” any further.
Why do i never get these surveys 15 years and not a single survey has come my way
This is the entire problem with your position, from beginning to end:
You couldn’t be bothered.
You didn’t play through the entire storyline in the first place (your own admission). You jump all over the place in the game, and complain the story makes no sense and is “trash.”
Then proceed to demand the entire game be changed because of choices you made. You. Not the devs, not anyone else, YOU.
Nothing they change will fix those choices for any subsequent alt you make. You will still skip around, complaining the story “makes no sense” and it’s “trash.”
You falsely claim
Yet people can easily get there in a week without even pushing themselves.
Less, if they want a challenge.
Anyone who takes “years” to level a toon to 120 is the most casual player in the universe. And I’m not using the term pejoratively…I mean as in they literally log in to play maybe a minute or two a day to do a single quest per play session.
The rest of your post is ad hominem and avoiding the rebuttals, especially all the parts where I pointed out where you made clearly false statements in your previous post.
One last point: You can avoid the issue all you want, but your personal attacks, baiting, trolling etc are all violations of this forum’s code of conduct. The fact that you actually threaten to ratchet it up shows you know what you are doing is inappropriate and you don’t care.
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