So I came across a blue post and thought I would share it with you

(Rastlin) #91

That was a long time ago.

Fights have been made so much more complex and demand such perfection that now add ons are mandatory.

(Hazzulu) #92

Most fights today are not any worse than Putricide, Sindragosa, and LK on Heroic.

(Kineological) #94

Perception doesn’t come from nowhere. All 3 specs underperformed significantly on an average player, and regardless of dps/heal numbers the utility of shamans is very diverse but far too weak in its implementation.

Why do we keep going from expansion to expansion, patch to patch, with such severely unbalanced utility packages from class to class, spec to spec? Why does ONE class in the game have shroud? Why do moonkins have 1 minute cooldown trees, what kind of crap is that?

Some utility is just so insanely broken that other classes would have to do a lot more damage to make it worth not bringing those classes from a pure utilitarian point of view.

Social issues matter in an MMORPG.

The point is not that shamans don’t have utility; they have it by the boatload. The point is the specific parts of utility that are actually really broken or strong are either mirrored by other classes who also have much stronger utility besides that or too niche to be useful.

Shamans are a lot stronger now than they were, but nothing has changed in terms of applicable utility, which means they still won’t be desirable for high-end content when the other good choices are available. As a result of this, it will trickle down into casual play, because it always does. Numbers tuning is great and necessary, but so is utility tuning, which hasn’t happened at all… functionally since legion. Mages got their snares neutered but they are still good-ish. Otherwise the changes are too minimal to be good enough.

Speaking specifically on shaman, I would like to see some or all of:

  1. Mana tide totem for dps shamans.
  2. Talent option to greatly reduce cooldown and duration of earth elemental, and unlinking of earth elemental and dps elemental.
  3. Baseline thunderstorm castable on friendly targets, and talentable for resto.
  4. I’m not sure that an offensive purge warrants losing a school of dispel.

Speaking more generally, I just cannot understand the utility spread in the game.
Why do rogues and DH, two of the best dps, also have one of a very small number of sap abilities (where mobs don’t aggro while cced allowing skips), while other melee dps like monk doesn’t, warrior functionally has no cc, dk functionally has no cc, feral druid has root… etc etc. It makes no sense. This behavior should really be universal.

Give other specs shroud - arcane mage and survival hunter make perfect sense.

Give other specs magic/physical damage debuffs - spriests for magic and warriors and feral/guardian druids for physical makes sense to me.

Why can’t frost death knights snare equivalently to frost mages?

This are only a few things on a very long list. On the face these things sound like homogenisation, and to a point they are, but this sort of homogenisation has very little effect on class or spec identity and greatly increases versatility of class selection.


I mean Method’s Sco (Scott McMillan)'s highest m+ this season is +15 Tol Dagor, while his lowest is +5 Temple of Sethraliss. His average is +10 for the majority. And he plays BrM one of the easier tank classes for m+. Make of that what you will, but its not like one of the best raid tanks in the game cares much to be pushing high m+ dungeons beyond his average +10s and his occasional +15s. He’s also rockin a 360ilvl ring to boot so…


That’s not entirely true. If do enough homework on boss mechanics, m+ affixes, and aren’t experiencing tunnel vision/zoning out, all the information you need is on that screen. Not all of us can process the information the way it is displayed as intended by Blizzard, so addons assist us in assimilating information in a more player friendly interface of sorts. That’s why there’s different UIs, and players can customize them to their liking. It’s all about how best you assimilate information and what you need to assist your gameplay. None of it is absolutely necessary


You managed to sneak this by me and my guild made fun of me for it.


I mean, most people in Method don’t care about pushing keys, they’re actually having most of their core players spamming islands for Azerite right now in prep for the next raid.


Exactly! What’s the real point? What do you get beyond doing +10s besides to push yourself? Bragging rights? Does anyone really care?

(Rannoch) #100

OP, there’s a lot of things you’re not going to be able to do in the game. The post you linked to is correct: it really is okay to run into content that you cannot complete. The idea is that the players rise to the challenge, not that Blizzard lower the standards; that’s an idea I think we can all agree on: getting better and hitting those plateaus is the point of the game. We go from one difficulty level to the next, and as the content seriously challenges us, we look for more possibilities within our class’s toolbox and how to best use the tools available to us.

The problem arises when the devs cannot balance the classes so that all of them have an equal chance of reaching a preset plateau. Now it’s the class devs who have run into a problem that they cannot complete.

To be clear, the problem isn’t the philosophy. The problem is the devs who are supposed to make sure that every class can get there…and don’t.

(Rannoch) #101

What do you get beyond doing +10s besides to push yourself?

Pushing yourself is the reward, though.


Ahhh, to have that kind of time…

(Rannoch) #103

Don’t even.

“I don’t have time for that” is the saddest excuse ever: either you make time to get it done because it’s a priority for you or just admit that it’s not worth your time and stop thinking about it. But you do not complain about the results you’re not getting because of the effort you’re not willing to put in.

Nowadays, I get like an hour or two a day to mess with the game, and you’d best believe I want that hour to be a good one.

(Medaax) #104

Spriest pumps on AoE. The problem is they get AoE or ST. Not both. Also they have zero utility barring very edge cases. Usually dont need a mass dispel outside of last boss in Seige (when a warlock also brings another dispel) and you dont need a purge when mages/DH also bring that AND more damage. Oh and SPriest doesnt have a real defensive cooldown.


There is a FoS for doing all the dungeons as a +15 in time, but meh imo. M+ is far more boring and obnoxious in BFA than it was in Legion. There’s such an excessive amount of trash and there’s way too much going on a lot of the time, it’s just not fun. Not to mention if you’re not one of the meta classes you’re going to have a hard time actually pushing keys.


So I take it you also don’t have a guild, no friends that play WoW, no network of in-game friends/community, commute 140 miles for work on swing shift, only play in the mornings because you’d rather spend the night with the person you love, and have other hobbies besides WoW?

(Gistwiki) #107

Bull. Neither are stronger than Elemental right now in M+ for dps. Elemental won’t be prevalent in high end M+ for awhile yet since most players that were good at it left after years of being relatively meh, but Elemental is arguably the strongest dps in M+ right now assuming equal skill if you look at dps alone.

You’re starting to see one breaking into the top tier of M+ rn (Barokoshama runs with Jdotb & crew occasionally) but until more players return to the spec you won’t see it as often just yet.

I only speak for Elemental here because Enhancement isn’t considered for the spot traditionally filled by a mage or hunter in M+ and would instead be compared to DH/Rogue which brings its own problems.

(Awkaran) #108

I agree that WOW should have hard content. It should have a range of difficulty to appease to the various types of players that WOW attracts. But that doesn’t necessarily mean put in content that’s impossible to accomplish. Goal setting is very important in this game and currently in BFA goal setting is not emphasized and it’s a shame. In fact there are catch up mechanics, Azerite Power for example, that make goal setting less attractive - why spend time now grinding content when the grind will be much easier a week or two from now?

(Talbyy) #109

Yeah, this is pretty much the takeaway I got.

If you are playing with people that can’t be bothered to stop DPSing for a second and do mechanics the issue is the detrimental gameplay and attitude towards the content, not the developers design philosophy.

(Whiskeyjack) #110

You’re posting this from a dk. Are we being trolled?


Personally I believe all classes and specs are viable for mythic+ to a point, of course some are more viable than others but thats the nature of the game and I dont have a problem with it. What I dont agree with is that the 8.1 tuning helped enhance. Broken down the tuning looked like this to me…
-5% overall buff
-nerf to a couple of key pve abilities almost negating the 5% buff
-buff to several undertuned pve abilities which for the most part hasnt affected their viability
-removal of a couple key pvp abilities resulting in huge pvp nerf
-last minute nerf to new azerite trait thunderaans fury which appears to have made it quite undertuned paired with the fact it no longer replaces lightning conduit making it currently available only on some of the new gear

This is just my opinion and i could be wrong so forgive me if Ive overlooked something but the result of the tuning to me seems to be a very slight pve buff, a huge pvp nerf and no major changes to talent or azerite trait choices. So to me it seems that 8.1 basically left us in the same position we were in in 8.0 as far as pve goes and in a worse position as far as pvp goes.