When someone suggests that the Horde, without a hint of irony, has atoned for their actions by sending a half baked apology, and reforming their government to mostly benefit themselves, without lifting a finger to undo the damage they have caused, all the while supporting a genocidal monster for months, then that person have succeded in royally pissing me off. And it will take a lot for me to be cordial with them afterwards.
Submissive. So sending aid to those you have hurt is submissive to you.
No. But if you aren’t gonna care to understand how insulting your arguments are, then i’m not gonna be cordial. That is all.
The only one being a prick here is you Morg. This is the crap you pull when people give you actual in game lore that you don’t agree with. You start throwing insults
i’m not throwing insults because he stated that the Horde has apologized, or that they have reformed their Government. What I am insulting him for, and what is currently driving me up a wall, is the very idea, the insinuation that somehow that is all it takes for the Horde to atone.
Also, you think I care about the Night elves’ power fantasy? I don’t. I simply want the Horde to answer for their crimes, properly and preferably willingly. That. Is. All.
No, he’s saying that’s all it takes. That doing that, along with killing Sylvanas, is all it will take for the Horde to have atoned for Teldrassil. I think you can understand why I have a problem with that.
Fine. Just your crap attitude when people point things out is annoying. There hasn’t been a conversation where you haven’t resorted to insulting people eventually and you wonder why no one takes you serious.
You seriously need to stop playing the game if you’re going to be this hostile to people
If you find yourself feeling personally insulted over an online video game’s poorly written lore you might want to take a step back and calm down.
Night elves are not real. They cannot be hurt. I, however, am. Being cordial and polite, to the best of our ability, with other real, living beings is more important than fictional tragedies.
Also I never said this. You decided somewhere along the line that I had because you’re so angry that you assumed the worst of me.
I said the reformation of their government was a huge step in that direction. I never said it was the only step, just that it was a bigger deal than you were making it sound.
Alright. If that is truly what you meant, then I am sorry for going off on you.
I personally don’t think these steps are enough, because I see multiple different ways they could have shown their regret better. A lot better. The portrayl is simply very flawed.
You are right, and I am sorry for insulting you. It’s just that I have an extremely short fuse when it comes to certain people on this forum, and I thought you were one of them. I was wrong.
How will advice prevent someone from making war again? After all, the peoples of the horde only need blood, tell them that you will give them battles, and they will follow you. The council will be overthrown and in a single impulse they will become the Horde of Honor, because honor is a battle!
After all, the council was not elected by the lower ranks. The council imposed itself. And when the council dies, nothing will hold back the savage Horde. The lower classes of the Horde have no morality to prevent them from killing the Alliance.
Honestly, we all don’t know how it ends. Maybe it will end as Tyrande predicted. Blizzard has also hinted at it in the short stories, in Shadow Rising as well, the hints are clearly there, and if they are true the younger generation will grow up …wanting only revenge, and when that day comes Orgrimmar will burn, and nothing the Horde will have done will be able to prevent that.
However, it will not break the cycle, it will add another link to it. And unless they kill everything that is in Orgrimmar and the surrounding area, which I don’t think they will, (otherwise they might end WOW, though that might be the end plot that will end WOW, also possible), it will only create a new generation of hate on Horde as well, and the poison of hate has survived and feeds on the pain that it has created itself in the first place.
And even the sweetest retribution will not bring back what was lost, the parents will not return, the dearest ones will not come back, one will ultimately have to confront only one’s own guilt, and try to live with one’s sins.
The question that comes to my mind is, where do you want it to end? Where does the killing of each other end? Until one side has wiped out the other and hatred has extinguished every spark of morality and humanity?
I already posted a link to my European character. Go and see.
And yes, this is a primitive conversation. I did not go deep into the themes of the Horde and its politics. Yes, I was waiting for people’s reaction. Yes, it’s probably trolling.
What does not bother me not to understand what will prevent the majority of the Horde (not advising) to go kill again.
The entire story is poorly written tripe. The Horde heroes were forced into silence by the narrative for far too long and it made them all look like dickwaffles, so I get it.
I just also don’t want to lose the entire rest of the Horde leadership over Blizzard’s sloppy characterization.
Blizzard has just kind of left us in an awkward position where there is nothing the Horde can do to really make up for what they did. Their reformation, chaining of Sylvanas loyalists, and hunting of Sylvanas is a strong start but this is a race without a finishing line. There’s no magic number for how much the Horde has to do to achieve redemption. So it comes down to how the story can be told in a way that is enjoyable for the people playing it.
In that vein I’d just in general prefer the Horde to seek their redemption through valor than through submission. Rescuing night elf souls from Hell vs rebuilding night elf homes through self imposed slavery.
Especially since the night elves don’t really need nor want Horde labor. They grow their homes with magic, not with actual construction.
Though I’d not be opposed to a Cenarion Circle relief aid type deal with Horde druids playing a part in restoring the forests of Ashenvale to their former glory.
Apology accepted. Despite how horrid the story has been we’re all still clearly emotionally invested in it.
Which is whyyyyyyyyy I genuinely 100% believe Blizzard is simply going to Mass-Rez all the Dead Night Elves via Ardenweald at the end of Shadowlands.
Because Blizzard is dense enough to think if Magic Fairy Queen restores the Magic Tree and Resurrects All The Dead, then everything is fine again and all Alliance players can’t be mad! It’s basically Control+Z!
I wouldn’t put it passed them at this point. While I’d enjoy sweeping the whole problem under the rug with a mass resurrection I cannot in good conscience advocate for such terrible writing.
“Hey guys, don’t worry. All those night elves died but as it turns out death doesn’t matter in this verse! See? Problem solved!”
But it’s fine! Because the Winter Queen is Elune’s daughter and now Night Elves have magic powers tied to both the Shadowlands and the Dream so it’s fine everyone problem solved! uwu Gilneans have their mini tree back, all Nelves are mass-rez’d, tree is restored with updated particle effects, the works tee hee
And I don’t want that, at all. They won’t fall dead on the spot for proclaiming their deepest regrets about not stopping Sylvanas earlier. And I want to hear it from them. Perhaps not to the Allaince, but in monologue, or when talking with eachother.
Which is why I actually want the mass ress option to be the one we gets. Ridiculus, sure, but better that than the aftershocks.
And if that doesn’t happen, just trying can be enough. They just have to portray the Horde as truly regretful, and willing to help instead of harm.
I get that. But rescuing elven souls doesn’t do much for those on Azeroth who miss their friends and family. I believe there is something concrete the Horde can do for the still living Night elves, but exactly what is up for debate.
and now Night Elves have magic powers tied to both the Shadowlands and the Dream 
so it’s fine everyone problem solved! uwu Gilneans have their mini tree back, all Nelves are mass-rez’d, tree is restored with updated particle effects, the works tee hee