So about Frost DK's, MM, sub rogues

Will these 3 specs ever be viable or nah? Frost DK and MM in particular have been trash for months now

2 Likes

Sub is playable, MM / Frost however are not, they totally need love lmao

They both prolly just need whole spec reworks honestly both feel clunky to play

1 Like

Sub is playable at high mmr if youve played it for years. No one elects to play with sub unless youre a r1. Playable? Yes. In the meta? Absolutely not. Better off going sin because you can basically control a target infinitely with 90% slow on envenom and passive 60% slow while doing the same damage as a warrior or dk. If sub had 5-10% more damage in shadow dance itd be close to sin but assassination would still be better because you still have strong burst and
strong consistent damage. 2v2 its pretty good if you run with a fire mage or arcane mage but youre still getting carried by your partners damage. Id say honestly sub is a bit better than mm and dk but not by much

2 Likes

Sub is alot better off than MM / Frost xD, its still not great with how tanky everything is though

I mean i get your argument its better than mm and frost just not by much. It was fine the first week cus no one had gear but now basically its sin or get out

Edited: Removed inappropriate context - Forum Mod

Sub is a lot better for helping your partner get kills sure. Its damage is still just as low as fdk

1 Like

Ty for the edit i forget sometimes

Sub and fdk just need numbers tuning. Fdk is primarily a damage bot anyway when it works. It has basically the same kit that it had in legion, just with less damage comparatively. Sub has such a vast kit that you could argue that it’s damage should be lower than others (that isn’t me saying it should be tuned as-is).

Mm is the exact opposite. It’s damage is actually fine, it just lost way too many tools to still work. You went from binding or wyvern, bursting disorient, and trap to now just trap. Things like cheetah dodge and catlike being gone, and having fewer options out of the already bad pvp talent pool. I’ve said this in other threads, but it’s basically like what fire mage would be if it didn’t have db, shimmer, temp, cauterize, and roots. You can’t just take all of the non damage buttons away from a spec like this and expect it to work.

6 Likes

I feel like devs keep trying to reinvent the wheel intead of fine tuning and unpruning every expac… Every expac a spec plays differently. Use what works and tune accordingly. If a spec needs a rework give them a rework but don’t rework every spec every 2 years and then spend a year and a half balancing

7 Likes

Umm sub is in a good spot already.

what about affliction/demo locks even worse then frost dk LUL

Demo is r1 viable???

Yeah demo is actually a great spec. It’s just not played as much because it’s not the same role as destro, and destro is really really good. Aff isn’t “fine” from a numbers perspective but has a good base kit that would shine a lot brighter (like a diamond soul shard) if stuff like ua was tuned higher.

Yeah, cheap, cheap, cheap, cheap. Pop all cds do 40% of someones hp if they use no defensives.

Fun

1 Like

Not saying sub needs a big buff, just like 10-15% to make them playable again. They just aren’t scary anymore unless there is a fire mage on their team.

Then again what comp isn’t scary with a fire mage on their team

2 Likes

I would argue affliction is doing better in the numbers department than toolkit department (with the exception of UA dispel damage). Affliction remains the only spec in the game without a baseline instant CC/slow, with the toolkit being pruned to an all time low (all it really has is easily dispellable damage)

It’s weird because I actually top damage meters most 3v3 games on my affliction lock, yet I still feel really weak. I had 3x agony traits so the rot aspect was a bit better than it should be, but I still feel like aff needs probably a 10-15% dmg buff across the board.

To fix MM for pvp would take much more than numbers tuning. If we got our damage boosted even higher we would just become a one trick spec and be nerfed a week later left for the rest of the xpac.

Most likely we won’t be fixed till 8.2 unless blizzard magically decides to give us the WW treatment in 8.1.5 (new honor talents and adjustments to the spec specific for pvp).

Haha good ol’ Salts in here, can’t say wasn’t expecting him to be.

Personally for Sub, I think Dilly said it best in this post.

But I don’t think subs that bad, people don’t want to admit sub is a control spec and not a damage spec. If it’s damage were to be buffed ontop of having the amount of control they have they’d be disgustingly broken.

Aff damage is fine, it’s them being extremely squishy.

As for MM, they just need to make it so Lone Wolf gives freedom etc.