SL Boomkin Changes & Eclipse Discussion

It’s definitely going to be something that needs testing in a raid environment. If the Eclipse buffs proc only after 2-3 casts then that would be fine, but if it takes 5+, that is a lot of time lost, especially during burst windows.

The other thing is if boomkin damage relies on these Eclipse windows, then outside of the buff, our damage is going to suck. I would rather see them keep the current charge system, but add in the Eclipse buffs that give us a little extra power. That way you can still do damage outside the buff window, but you get a little extra when you use charges during the buff.

They changed Eclipse in the current Alpha build. Currently, Wrath/Starfire have a 3 charge “countdown” on them, and once you cast 3 of either and exhaust the charges or whatever you want to call them, it puts you in an eclipse state for the other spell (3 wraths grants lunar eclipse, 3 starfires grants solar). While you have an eclipse state, the 3 “charges” go away and you don’t start using them again until after the eclipse state is over. It does seem like there’s also a cooldown on building towards a specific eclipse state, you you can’t just cast 3 starfires to get solar eclipse and then do it immediately again after solar eclipse has ended.

Entering an eclipse state also resets however many charges you had on the other spell. So, for example, you can’t cast 2 wraths, then 3 starfires, and only need to cast one wrath once you’re out of solar eclipse to start the lunar cycle, as the charges will have gone back to 3.

Starsurge still extends whatever eclipse state you’re in. Starfall doesn’t appear to do anything other than be a huge AoE. Starfire procs from Owlkin Frenzy seem to be hit or miss as to whether they consume one of the charges, which is probably a bug.

Sorry if this is rambly and hard to understand, trying to test and type and do my actual work at the same time.

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Makes perfect sense to me and sounds great tbh. This is shaping up to be an improvement to the current model imo

this is interesting. wonder how it plays with warrior of elune…at least for pvp. 3 instant cast starfires to proc solar. seems to bring it a little closer to the cata style where you had more of a predetermined number of casts before eclipse would proc

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Upon further inspection, Starfacll actually does have a bit more to it, extending the duration of active DoTs by 4 seconds, but this “Rank 2” doesn’t unlock til lvl 54.

Made a big ole post on the alpha forums.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-druid-class-changes/490706/81

Still not a fan of Starfall Rank 2. But these new Eclipse changes are big and good.

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I just don’t know that there’s any getting around the fact that Eclipse— in all its permutations over the years— is fundamentally trying to prop up a rotation built around two pretty boring, pretty similar filler spells.

Alternating Wrath and Starfire just… isn’t interesting (in my opinion). So here comes attempt number #6 or #7 to try to make it seem more engaging.

Maybe the problem is deeper. It’s like they had one idea for what ‘balance’ could mean (“they have to use these two spells!.. in balance”), and they’ve been spinning in circles with it.

Frustrating.

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I do like this version more it looks to be usable in both PvE and PvP as a base, though hopefully with numbers the empowered spell feels empowered as opposed to current empowerments.

I do have a small suggestion flavorwise. I remember back in Wrath Lunar had increased crit percentage; seeing multiple subsequent crits with Starfire felt very powerful and made it feel a lot more different than Wrath.

Any thoughts on what could replace Stellar Flare? That’s the most boring spell I’ve played with since Legion, it just feels like a Moonfire with a cast time (boring). What if it behaved like Swiftmend but with one Moonfire / Sunfire?

Also, the Affinity utility row needs work. Feral’s utility spell is not really worth it to anyone except Resto druids, and it does make Feral’s lack of unique utility come forth, perhaps giving Feral’s Displacer Beast. Another idea also would be to bring back a new version of Mushrooms for Balance Affinity instead of Typhoon so that Guardians have more control, and making it an interesting alternative for Resto and Feral druids, and keeping Typhoon where it is now in the Talent Tree.

Sounds like eclipse is exactly the same as before except it’s now a guaranteed 3 casts after the previous one ends. You will still be locked into wrath for 10+ seconds or starfire for 10+ seconds. The rotation still controls you. The live version is still better in my opinion. At least with the live version im constantly building procs off starsurges and the spells themselves. That offers much more flexibility and variety in the rotation.

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I agree. I much prefer BFA’s set up over anything we’ve seen in the Alpha thus far. Kinda wish Blizz would just buff starfall and otherwise leave Balance alone.

The live version does have problems though, its very easy to cap empowerments / astral power, so they do get wasted. I disagree on the variety of live, you just alternate spells due to Streaking Stars but I do think that the Shadowlands version could use a random proc or spell during Eclipse that breaks the spamming of the filler. Perhaps having the Moon Spells baseline again could make it more interesting.

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What would be really cool is if they did something like if you are capped on Empowerment Charges, and generate a fourth charge, it casts the extra one automatically.

E.g., during a ST rotation you could keep casting Wrath + Starsurge, and the Lunar Strikes would automatically cast when you generate extra charges.

I hardly ever cap on empowerments and pretty much never with astral power. Sounds more like an issue with your rotation then how the spec is designed. You only have to alternate for streaking stars during celestial alignment, other than that with empowerments you can have 3 of each stacked and use them in whatever order u like. Thats def variety compared to being forced to cast wrath or starfire for 10+.

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The spec’s Astral Power generation has been designed to not go into Empowerment waste. It’s feels okay now, but it’s been a limit on the spec for 2 years.

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Except when you run Vision of Perfection Major which is rather frequent and one of the most used. Also Wrath and Starfire have a chance to proc the opposing empowerment as well as Power of the Moon, so when you have astral generation cooldowns sum to those procs it does become an issue.

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the live version is being propped up by streaking stars right now. and streaking stars is not very interesting. without the streaking stars burst the specs damage isnt very good and streaking stars pretty much forces you to just alternate casts. eclipse is what the spec pretty much always was…its just that they destroyed it with the WoD version and then scrapped it to turn us into another genericx builder/spender. if they can get eclipse fixed the right way i’ll be very happy with the change back to eclipse. it seems they are trying to give us, with proper gameplay, a real way to control the flow of eclipse…in a more dynamic way than the cata/mop versions

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The current Eclipse mechanic in Alpha is not any more interesting. But it is more complicated for no more benefit that I can tell. Which is entirely my apprehension about the change. Say what you want, the change feels very much like a change for the sake of change. I’d be happy to change my mind if someone can show me mathematically how the change is better for us in the long run.

And I’ll add this. I don’t care a whit for flash. I don’t want flash. I want capable. I have that now though admittedly Starfall needs the love its being shown currently in alpha.

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right now are empowerments even meaningful? you almost never cast an unempowered wrath or starfire…so really whats the point of empowerments? they might as well just be baseline. the way it’s being described now…eclipse doesn’t have too much downtime, but enough to make it something that can be more worthwhile to have. they can make it more meaningful, and gaming eclipse to keep uptime as high as possible seems like it will be possibly what separates great balance druids from just decent balance druids

Respectfully, none of that answers my question. Empowerments mattering is neither here nor there. Our damage matters. How does Eclipse Empowerment increase our damage? Why should I enjoy the greater complexity of Eclipse empowerment over what we have now?

I know I’m calling Eclipse empowerment more complicated, but I do mean it in the general sense. Point of fact, Eclipse empowerment isn’t truly complicated by any stretch of the imagination. But it is more complicated than our current system.

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first question…did you ever play any of the variations of eclipse before WoD??