Since we're keeping Voidform

[Voidcaller-hakkar]

May I suggest some quality of life changes for Shadow?

Shadow Word: Void Baseline
Shadow Word: Void needs to be baseline. It is completely mandatory for the spec to function properly. Without it, you will ALWAYS run into a time when voidbolt and mindblast come off CD at the same time, forcing you to choose which to cast, and lose dps on the other

Legacy of the Void Baseline
Another change I think could help is Legacy of the Void being baseline. The spec feels far FAR too slow without it because it takes so much longer to get into voidform. Not to mention

Lingering Insanity Baseline
A third change that could help would be Lingering Insanity baseline. Without this, the flow of Shadow feels very jagged and disruptive when you drop out of voidform.
When you get higher stacks, the extra haste makes the rotation flow, and feel rather smooth and streamlined, then you drop voidform and suddenly feel like you have curse of tongues on you. It’s not fun and feels bad

I realize these 3 things are talents, and we already have access to them, but they currently are not choices one can make. You are required to take these talents in all scenarios. Any dungeons, any mythics, any raid encounters… Everywhere. This to me says these talents are either A) far too strong, or B) the spec is far to dependant on them and they need to just become a natural part of it.

If these were made baseline, it would allow room for new talents to possibly address some of shadows other issues. Maybe something that interacts with Devouring plague?

Another suggestion

Chorus of Insanity
Now I know a lot of people hate this trait because it’s a bandaid to keep shadow viable. However, I do think the effect is fun, but the way it works is kind of backwards and it could be made part of the spec.

I would suggest rolling it into voidform itself, meaning you’d gain crit (and haste) passively while in voidform, rather than once it drops. This would help reduce shadows ramp up, and also give us a reason to stay in voidform longer.

This could be made a talent in place of one of my other suggestions being made baseline, or it could be a passive part of voidform itself. This effect could also be attached to lingering Insanity, allowing us to carry the crit and haste with us once voidform drops

I know most of these suggestions seem like Band-Aids to help fix voidform, and they are. I won’t sit here and say voidform is perfect and fine the way it is because it’s not. We are going to see significant loss Shadowlands when all of our crutches are gone.

The devs appear to be dead set on shadow priests being a ramp up spec, however if we’re forced to keep voidform, then I would like to at least see some of shadows crutches baked into the spec so it remains somewhat playable and functional.

Maybe Blizzard could look into something like increasing the benefits of each voidform stack, but increasing the sanity drain. That way we could get the same affect of high stacks faster, but also have shorter voidforms to achieve that benefit. Basically our normal damage cycle, but condensed into a shorter timeframe

I would very much like to avoid a repeat of BFA launch. I remember trying to level as shadow, it was awful. I’ve never once quit playing a spec because it felt bad except for that instance… Shadow just felt so powerless

I feel if we are to remain as a ramp up spec, we need the tools to be at least somewhat functional in this bursty, on demand damage meta.

[anon86204805]

Yup, pretty clear they’ve ignored feedback over the past couple of expansions, and still going for Voidform: #removevoidform

The 3 talents listed and Chorus trait have been close to being required, while the spec still has problems in certain content, these would help.

To be honest, if we were to keep Voidform moving forward (which I’d rather we drop like a bad smell in an elevator), there would need to be the above, plus serious attempts at allowing the player to circumvent, or drop out of Voidform altogether. This could be done by allowing the player the option to simply treat Eruption as a spender for content they’d rather not involve Voidform.

This could also involve a completely baseline idea of separating Eruption from Voidform. allowing the two to co-exist for their purposes.

This is not a new idea, as has been repeated during the BFA testing cycle.

In edit, how to improve Shadow:
https://clips.twitch.tv/ColdObliqueJellyfishDeIlluminati

[Pepino-caelestrasz (Pepino)]

My suggestion instead of making Devouring Plague a spender of insanity, reverse it, make it compliment Void Form.

Make it outside of Void Form generate Insanity and while in Void Form while the DoT is in effect halt insanity draining.

So this let’s us get into Void Form quicker and keep us in Void Form longer!!

Ofcourse this is if they keep Void Form for Shadowlands, I’m not opposed going back to Shadow Orbs, but I do like Void Form, it’s what makes Shadow Priests visually stand out and not look like every other caster.

But everything you mentioned becoming baseline I agree! It would immensely help!.

[Expat-wyrmrest-accord]

they could save so much time and energy by just turning it back to the shadow orb version and then making voidform a DPS CD. use voidform, get access to voidbolt, have voidbolt increase the duration of your DoTs (including DP). nobody likes voidform in its current state and making it a CD would fix spriests issue of having one of the worst cooldowns in the game

[Phaeron-arthas]

Not to nit-pick, but hasn’t Dark Ascension been the preferred talent during the start of expansions due to a lack of haste and crit because it allows us to get off Void Explosions more often since we can barely reach 20 stacks early on. We switch to Legacy of the Void later on because an increase of crit and haste let’s us get higher stacks and then when we do drop, we basically enter again a couple of GCD’s later.

But I agree, we’re going to need some talents made baseline and some traits to come back as talents if we’re going to not feel like complete dookie.

[Yvaelle-lightbringer (Yvaelle)]

Yes, it’s likely to get into a rotation where every first and 3rd Voidform is instant due to Dark Ascension. Also downtime makes it available again, which is great.

As the expansion goes on and Voidforms get longer due to gear, the value drops as it more frequently comes off cooldown and stays off cooldown longer - while we’re still in a Voidform.

Another way to think of it is, as Voidform durations get longer, the effective cooldown of Dark Ascension gets longer. Early on, you’re going to use it every 60 seconds. Later into the expansion, it’s going to only get used every 90 seconds or longer. Whereas Legacy of the Void is always useful: for the 5% damage, the reduced cast time, and the reduced cost.

Surrender To Madness, as the third choice, is never useful. Because ‘fatal risk, high reward’ is not a stable balance point. Either the reward does not match the risk (never worthwhile), or the risk does match the reward (the ability is overpowered).

[Mystakai-zuluhed]

Longer voidforms are not healthy for the damage profile of the spec. Please never ask for it to be longer.

[Yvaelle-lightbringer (Yvaelle)]

Progressively longer voidforms with better gear is at the heart of the Voidform model’s design. It’s a bad design.

More crit or haste, all mandatory talents, and all mandatory borrowed power systems do the same thing - increase the length of Voidform.

There is only one real solution, #RemoveVoidform.

[Pepino-caelestrasz (Pepino)]

Couldn’t a real solution just be make Void Form a 2-3min cooldown, and make it like many other classes with a dps burst window?, like combust for mage or dark soul for warlocks?.

Just make it a cooldown, you erupt and in Void Form for 30 seconds and you do your burst, then go back to shadow form and perhaps shadow orb iteration?.

Like realistically looking at it from both perspectives, a removal isn’t really necessary, just changing it to a burst window cooldown like most classes?.

[Yvaelle-lightbringer (Yvaelle)]

Turning Voidform into a burst cooldown is definitely a solution, but the reason that works is because it destroys the Voidform Model.

The current model, where you build up to Voidform, then try to remain in Voidform as long as possible, despite an accelerating Insanity decay rate - is impossible to balance.

Numbers can tune it for a given tier and content (ex. mythic raid progression), but the model will still be out of tune for all other tiers before and after, and out of tune for all other content.

What you are proposing is to remove the Voidform Model, and return to a Shadowform model, then add Voidform back - if only graphically - as a burst cooldown.

When we say #RemoveVoidform, it’s not the aesthetic appearance we want to remove, it’s the model.

[Hpellipsis-whisperwind (Hpellipsis)]

@Pepino-caelestrasz

Like realistically looking at it from both perspectives, a removal isn’t really necessary, just changing it to a burst window cooldown like most classes?.

That’s still removing the mechanics that underpin it’s current design. You’d also still need to create a completely new rotation / mechanic to replace what you’ve taken away.

#removethemechanicsthatcurrentlyunderpinvoidformandreplacethemwithsomethingelseandmaybemakeathreeminutecooldowncalledvoidforminstead just doesn’t have the same ring to it.

[Pepino-caelestrasz (Pepino)]

Well isn’t that what your basically asking for anyways?, I see these remove void form posts all asking for it to be gone, which is exactly the same, removing the mechanics and creating new rotations?, what I’m saying isn’t totally remove void form, with devouring plague returning rotations will have to be re learnt regardless to be most optimal as what happens with every expansion and introduction to new skills.

I’m saying keep void form, just make it like most other dps cooldowns, just give a 30 sec burst window with skills improved in damage, can make it when void eruption happens places shadow word pain on all adds, so it’s great in M+ and AoE situations… then that’s it goes on cooldown and life is back to normal. Just like every other dps spec…

I’m more for…fix Void Form…regardless how people see it, it’s literally one of the few things making Shadow Priest Unique and Distinguished from other caster specs.

[Hpellipsis-whisperwind (Hpellipsis)]

@Pepino-caelestrasz

I’m saying keep void form, just make it like most other dps cooldowns

Voidform isn’t currently a cooldown though. It’s the core mechanic which every aspect of the spec revolves around.

[Pepino-caelestrasz (Pepino)]

Like I said, especially with devouring plague returning and costing insanity as a spender, it seems like they stepping away from Void Form being its core mechanic… so why not just make Void Form a cooldown spell, like every other class.

Gosh I remember TBC - WoD, Shadow priests just being a discount Affliction Lock, and it seems everyone has forgotten that, Void Form is what made Shadow Priests stick out, even in Cata - MoP where you could argue Shadow Priests was at its peak, especially with the Shadow Orb play style, people still argued it was basically a discount Affliction Lock… so Blizzard makes something for Shadow Priests to be different and it’s remove this and remove that… literally regardless how you see Void Form, it’s the only thing making Shadow Priests unique currently… remove that and what’s left?

Chuck a few dots that don’t do squat… might aswell as the arguement back then was, go Affliction Lock.

I swear people have memories like a gold fish or choose to forget the problems back then…

[Lanceaqora-incendius]

That is EXACTLY what I think they should do with the spec, that would be a win for everyone.

[Phaeron-arthas]

@Pepino-caelestrasz

Shadow priests just being a discount Affliction Lock

Voidform is just discount Pre-Legion Demonology Warlock. Voidform = Metamorphosis.

I mean… take it a bit further and Ret Paladin Holy Power is just discount Combo Points. Go even further and Fury/Maelstrom/Focus is just discount Rage.

Blizzard swapped to the resource generator/spender model a while ago and this has caused tons of interclass similarities and “homogenization.” It’s caused problems, but it’s also made it easier for people to try out a new class/spec and not have such a learning curve.

[Pepino-caelestrasz (Pepino)]

To a degree, Metamorphosis was all about the meta dance, Void Form is truely just ramp and de ramp…, but god to a miss the Meta Dance, loved Demo Lock from MoP - WoD prepatch.

But hey your right , Might aswell just play Afflic Lock right?, atleast life be less stressful.

Difference is these discount versions you suggesting actually work… and viable.

Also, Metamorphosis and that play style is gone and now only unique to Shadow Priest to a degree.

[Phaeron-arthas]

@Pepino-caelestrasz

Difference is these discount versions you suggesting actually work… and viable.

Yes… and Insanity doesn’t. That’s the entire point.

[Pepino-caelestrasz (Pepino)]

Have you read anything I wrote… hahaha I’m agreeing with you! Through this whole thread, I’m saying to change it from off insanity. Like did you just come in and read the last post and be like ohh noo he didn’t… have you read anything.

I AGREE insanity doesn’t work and the current iteration of Void Form doesn’t! And needs to be changed, but I don’t think removed entirely.

[Phaeron-arthas]

oic. I took “literally regardless how you see Void Form, it’s the only thing making Shadow Priests unique currently… remove that and what’s left?” as an argument for keeping Voidform.