11/01/2018 12:53 AMPosted by VerliusBtS practically spits in the face of this idea, as well.
BtS shows that most of humanity are bigots against the Undead for who they are. Few focus on all the crazy crap they've pulled over the years.
BtS shows that most of humanity are bigots against the Undead for who they are. Few focus on all the crazy crap they've pulled over the years.
Its true that BtS shows alliance disliking undead, apologies for my hyperbolic wording. I just dislike BtS for various reasons and that may have overshadowed my judgement.
Regardless, many view BtS as showing that humanity is fairly accepting of undead, and not the opposite, despite it showing that the majority of humanity are bigoted against them. To me this seems like the novel didnt convey itself well to many readers, based on this.
Regardless, many view BtS as showing that humanity is fairly accepting of undead, and not the opposite, despite it showing that the majority of humanity are bigoted against them. To me this seems like the novel didnt convey itself well to many readers, based on this.
You know I've always wondered, what would happen if the Alliance brought him back. I mean, it's not very likely, but I've always just kind of wondered, what would he do first?
11/01/2018 02:07 PMPosted by MaizonoYou know I've always wondered, what would happen if the Alliance brought him back. I mean, it's not very likely, but I've always just kind of wondered, what would he do first?
Tell Anduin to kick all the Elves out of Stormwind
Daelin Retcon from Warcraft 3
wait, what?
11/01/2018 06:19 PMPosted by EtheldaldDaelin Retcon from Warcraft 3
wait, what?
I was wondering this too.
Are we talking an actual retcon, or are we talking people being mad that the veteran from the second war who had icky feelings about orcs, also happened to be a human with human flaws and wasn't 100% evil and shallow?
Because neither option would surprise me. Blizzard's done actual surprise retcons before. But I'm not going to accept "character was actually more 3-dimensional than previously suspected" as a retcon.
11/01/2018 06:37 AMPosted by VillainsDo you have examples of extreme events that were white washed? The only points I ever see brought up are muh taurajo, muh orc camps and muh Garithos.
The fact that you belittle those events shows how inconsistent Blizzard has been at portraying them.
*Night elves in the Belf starting area
*Purge of Dalaran
*Daelin Retcon from Warcraft 3
*Tirisfal Glades invasion prior Battle for Lordaeron
*Mag'har recruiting scenario "Oh but those draenei are totes not alliance" That's the point...
*Most of the War campaigns and BfA zones.
Seriously dude, just look at and post Battle of Dazar'alor
I could go on but...11/01/2018 06:37 AMPosted by VillainsWhat's a bigot apologist? This some weird political thing slipping into your discussion about a fictional story?
There was a recent thread, and perhaps the reason this one was created, where several people questioned Sylvanas actions against Garithos and elevated the dude to some sort of moral character that got awfully betrayed by the evil witch elf .
Are you triggered or something? I do know this is a fictional story, but let's not play naive here and pretend IRL Points of view do not project on these discussions, any narrative, specially a war one, has its roots on real life events.
Christie Golden even admitted that most of the Garrosh events in the trial were inspired on Nuremberg trials:
https://twitter.com/ChristieGolden/status/443042929511510016
So please babyboi, do not use that card here, not gonna work.
Ah, so you ARE one of those tumblr types, good to know.
I don't belittle those events I just actually read the story surrounding them and gain this magical thing called context. Taurajo is a meme because it was literal small potatoes. It's amazing people even attempt to push this still when the alliance general in question made every reasonable attempt to give the civillians a chance to get away. What was he supposed to do? Not attack a military outpost because he MIGHT kill some civillians who refused to flee? If anything that action is as close to actual moral grey blizzard has ever come.
Garithos is a meme because litterally nobody in the current Alliance would even know who the !@#$ he is. The alliance of stormwind has no idea what even went on over there at that time. Their official records would be everyone died.
The orc camps. Idk did you miss the first and 2nd war? Kind of important to consider why the orcs were put there and what the alternative was.
-Night elves in belf starting area. By definition the belves declared themselves enemies of the alliance by joining the horde. The opperative word is -enemy-. You honestly believe the horde was not spying on the alliance too? That's how cold wars work.
-Purge of dalaran. Canonically very very few belves actually died, the rest were thrown in prision for a factual crime commited by a member of their very small organization. The entire incident had zero alliance approval. I don't understand the point here?
-Proudmoore retcon. Wtf are you even talking about.
- Mag'har. Those draenei are litterally not part of the alliance. All factions on AU draenor were abandoned to their own devices as evident by needing to tear open a new portal to their world because all of the old links were severed. Talk about reaching.
-War campaign. Please elaborate. I played the entire alliance story and the only non horde military targets we attacked were some armed outcasts holding alliance soldiers hostage in Vol'dun. What are you talking about? The attack on zuldazzar itself is still not live yet so the specifics are not even known. At best it's questionable to attack the Zandalari but then you consider how many times they have both directly and indirectly attacked the alliance in previous expansions.
Garithos is relevant even today. He makes an example.
When a living Human commander comes to Lordaeron demanding satisfaction - they receive a death trap.
Garithos could have made a fair deal, or even rewarded Sylvanas and the Forsaken for their aid. He could have begged for escape. Instead he demanded her cornered groveling to be fulfilled.
Who knows. Maybe she would have allowed him to march out of her newly acquired lands if he bothered to ask nicely.
When a living Human commander comes to Lordaeron demanding satisfaction - they receive a death trap.
Garithos could have made a fair deal, or even rewarded Sylvanas and the Forsaken for their aid. He could have begged for escape. Instead he demanded her cornered groveling to be fulfilled.
Who knows. Maybe she would have allowed him to march out of her newly acquired lands if he bothered to ask nicely.
I don't think Garithos' fate much impacted the Forsaken's overall direction as a race. It's pure player inference that Sylvanas turning on Garithos is why the Alliance killed her ambassadors, the implication being more that they looked like the Scourge and the Scourge are evil.
He played a pretty significant role in where the blood elves ended up falling though. Kael'thas considered that whole incident the Alliance "failing his people"; Lor'themar and Rommath also both consider it an attempted massacre the Alliance is responsible for.
He played a pretty significant role in where the blood elves ended up falling though. Kael'thas considered that whole incident the Alliance "failing his people"; Lor'themar and Rommath also both consider it an attempted massacre the Alliance is responsible for.
I actually find it interesting how little (if at all) he is even mentioned in WoW considering he was a key player in TWO current Horde factions moving to the Horde.
He attempted to kill off the Blood Elves (but I guess divided them instead? Idk, depends on who is in charge of the lore that day on which is which) and more or less forced them (kind of?) from the Alliance, which led them to seek the Horde out.
He worked with the Forsaken, then, oddly enough (I think a Dreadlord was involved during the Blood Elf bit) gave them the chance to leave when they were done. Instead they turned on him, slaughtered him and his troops and then sent emissaries to the Alliance, but even though he was willing to work with them as an distrustful raciest, the remnants of the Alliance to the South supposedly killed the Forsaken on the spot because Scourge? And apparently some of his troops lived to tell the tale of the Forsaken betrayal? This meant the Forsaken would never be trusted by the Alliance and so they sought the safety within the Horde.
You know what? With the roll he played, and with all the Retcons to what happened when and where and to who, they need to iron out his story and decide on what happened, and the order it happened in.
He attempted to kill off the Blood Elves (but I guess divided them instead? Idk, depends on who is in charge of the lore that day on which is which) and more or less forced them (kind of?) from the Alliance, which led them to seek the Horde out.
He worked with the Forsaken, then, oddly enough (I think a Dreadlord was involved during the Blood Elf bit) gave them the chance to leave when they were done. Instead they turned on him, slaughtered him and his troops and then sent emissaries to the Alliance, but even though he was willing to work with them as an distrustful raciest, the remnants of the Alliance to the South supposedly killed the Forsaken on the spot because Scourge? And apparently some of his troops lived to tell the tale of the Forsaken betrayal? This meant the Forsaken would never be trusted by the Alliance and so they sought the safety within the Horde.
You know what? With the roll he played, and with all the Retcons to what happened when and where and to who, they need to iron out his story and decide on what happened, and the order it happened in.