Should the Alliance be Rebranded?

[Assarac-antonidas]

I totally see where you are coming from, and no I don’t think Alliance taking Oggrimar from the horde would do anything but infuriate Horde players (rightfully so). But a number of smaller victories or truely good moments for the alliance would go a long way to allowing them to feel some faction pride again. It doesn’t even necessarily have to outright give the horde the middle finger either.

An example: A story where the alliance takes back and cleanses Gilneas for the worgen and Nightelves. That zone in game and in lore seems to be up in the air on who controls it anyways. It would make for a great story campaign for nightelf and worgen players. A truely eff yeah moment for the alliance. And horde arently really losing much so theres less reasons to call foul (still probably will though).

Will it happen? At this point I would be more likely to believe they will just give it to the horde/forsaken and ruin a georgous zone and once again flip the middle finger to the Alliance. Seriously the zone doesn’t need much work, just populate it with Gilneans and Night Elves and call it a city.

[anon34007461]

First let me state bias, I’m aligned to keep faction conflict a PvP flagged only deal whether it is still race locked or player chosen.

Suffice, while Alliance may be fantasy stereotype as trolls and orcses tend to be auto evil in other fantasy settings, what made the Warcraft RTS series interesting to me was characters like Arthas and the seven? Human kingdoms choosing to participate or back down in conflict.

I don’t think characters should be tied by their race, say if Genn, Worgen leader, says I’m out on this undead embracing. But at the same time, there is so much lazy groupthink tied to WoWs story telling.
“My life… For Azshara…!” Is just one of a storybook content lemming speak coming from voice actors. I’d much rather hear an interesting Boomer explosion (sound effect) than these obsessed mind controlled fanatics.

Instead the Game of Thrones element this expansion isn’t Alliance inter-conflict but new Kul Titan factions we have never heard of.

I wondered from Vanilla what was behind that wall in Gilneas, and it was fun to find out, but Genn backed out of the third war.
Stromgarde did as well, I think over disagreements of Orc prison camps.
Blood Elves broke off.
Alterac/Syndicate broke off and betrayed if I recall?
Whether a nation was on the brink of collapse or just saying,
nnnnnNope!

The Forsaken in contrast can go a bit over the edge in things like Wrathgate and Sylvanas now that she leads Horde (or Kael’thas mood ring drop out), but just having a character say no is a powerful tool, that nearly every Alliance major figure lacks. Thus it makes it corny and one dimensional like Jim Carrey’s Yes Man.

Lining the edge between Forsaken betrayal and Alliance head bobbing, Sylvanas backing out of Legion assault and Blood Elves leaving in third war are two contrasting examples.
You can argue the Blood Elves leaving because one man, Garithos not liking them is lame and most these conflicts in our world could be handled with a hug and a handshake, but it happened during Blood Elves Empire Strikes Back. However, once Sylvanas backed out of that Legion assault, it became, why is Sylvanas not a yesman like the rest of us?
The disloyalty!

Nations don’t just go with a high king except maybe under confederation during a specific time of need. Previous… Alliances were under a temporary commander/leader that would bring them out of that moment of need.

[Elyssaria-kargath]

@Barrison-emerald-dream

The aethetics can be changed to be more Night Elven/Night Warrior - a purple tabard with a glaive and a moon, reflecting power and devotion. Suddenly, when Tyrande rides into battle against the Horde and says: “Death to Elune’s Enemies!”

As awesome as this could be… Blizz will never steer away from Stormwind and the Human High King fantasy for the alliance. We have so many interesting races beyond SW humans that could steer it in a better less “boring” image for the alliance, if blizz decided to bring them to the forefront.

[Barrison-emerald-dream (Barrison)]

Oh yeah for sure - not even sure I’d like that direction, frankly, I was just using it as an example. More realistically, I’d love to see a new human faction emerge - maybe from the remnants of the Defias Brotherhood, the Syndicate and even some Night Elf/Gilneas meddling, and basically Red Wedding Anduin and his pacifist supporters who have worked so hard to make the Alliance weak… and then instilling a brand new Alliance dedicated to rebuilding the Alliance at all costs (including enslaving troggs, murlocs, anything that can be made to work to death for free - we need that cheap labor after CGI Cut Scene #2) and eradicating the Horde, at least until we need to unite for the greater good, of course… but y’know, we can’t expect miracles.

OF COURSE, it would never happen, but I would be so excited by this.

[Pocketbuster-nagrand]

@Sylvanás-windrunner

The alliance is a joke cause that’s what the majority of the alliance players want it to be.

For a faction to become interesting, it has to have dynamics, contrasts, and not a single race followed by a bunch of Yes-races.

I doubt Alliance players want a bunch of robot yes-men superfriends that stand there like an idiot getting punched in the face while calmly asking the person in question to please stop punching them in the face. They aren’t remotely realistic in the slightest. You can’t empathize with the Alliance at all.

And I doubt the Alliance players wanted Yrel “the next generation of Alliance Heroes” to be cooling her heels in Tanaan for years after her big fist pump moment was distracting Blackhand for two seconds.

It’s just sad.

The Night Elves lost Stonetalon, Ashenvale, Darkshore, Teldrassil. They live on the streets now, they have nothing, why are they even still in the Alliance? Why are they even a playable race? Oh wait, they decided to “get serious” now? After they are virtually wiped out? now? How do I relate with these suicidally stupid factions?

Blizzard doesn’t give a rats a@# about it Alliance, and it shows through and through. They are a joke to them. Just get rid of the faction, they are just embarassing and sad now.

[Kyveli-aerie-peak (Kyveli)]

@Barrison-emerald-dream

Oh yeah for sure - not even sure I’d like that direction, frankly, I was just using it as an example. More realistically, I’d love to see a new human faction emerge - maybe from the remnants of the Defias Brotherhood, the Syndicate and even some Night Elf/Gilneas meddling, and basically Red Wedding Anduin and his pacifist supporters who have worked so hard to make the Alliance weak… and then instilling a brand new Alliance dedicated to eradicating the Horde (until we need to unite for the greater good, of course… but y’know, we can’t expect miracles)

OF COURSE, it would never happen, but I would be so excited by this.

Lead by Empress Catherine Rogers?

[Barrison-emerald-dream (Barrison)]

If they did the above, hell, I’d settle for Emperor Kermit the Frog.

[Sevaira-thrall (Sevaira)]

@Pocketbuster-nagrand

I doubt Alliance players want a bunch of robot yes-men superfriends that stand there like an idiot getting punched in the face while calmly asking the person in question to please stop punching them in the face. They aren’t remotely realistic in the slightest. You can’t empathize with the Alliance at all.

Problem with the alliance exists in the conundrum of having a two faction game in which both sides do not want to be sith level of bad guys.

The horde from the beginning are written into this grey area and that allows them more flexibility. In order to bring the alliance on the same level would require them to take a darker turn or take on a righteous heroic complex. The problem with the latter is that someone taking extreme steps but still written as the good guys has to have a villain that is pretty dark. This would require writing the Horde to be much darker than it is or continuing down this Sylvanas path that we are on but that has not gone over well with a lot of the Horde playerbase.

For this to ultimately work, blizzard would have to be willing to see the Alliance take some dark steps and for the players to respond well to accepting that identity. I am not sure I ever see that happening.

[Hardwire-velen (Hardwire)]

@Barrison-emerald-dream

I think they really wrote themselves into a corner with Anduin, being that he’s a complete pacifist

I live in hope that someday, somehow, people posting on these forums will actually learn what a pacifist is, rather than just tossing it around about anyone who isn’t a complete warmonger.

[Barrison-emerald-dream (Barrison)]

C’mon… it took the complete and utter genocide of the Night Elf race before Anduin was like: “Maybe war is unavoidable.”

If he’s not a complete pacifist, he’s certainly a complete wimp.

[Sylvanás-windrunner]

@Sevaira-thrall

@Pocketbuster-nagrand

I doubt Alliance players want a bunch of robot yes-men superfriends that stand there like an idiot getting punched in the face while calmly asking the person in question to please stop punching them in the face. They aren’t remotely realistic in the slightest. You can’t empathize with the Alliance at all.

Problem with the alliance exists in the conundrum of having a two faction game in which both sides do not want to be sith level of bad guys.

The horde from the beginning are written into this grey area and that allows them more flexibility. In order to bring the alliance on the same level would require them to take a darker turn or take on a righteous heroic complex. The problem with the latter is that someone taking extreme steps but still written as the good guys has to have a villain that is pretty dark. This would require writing the Horde to be much darker than it is or continuing down this Sylvanas path that we are on but that has not gone over well with a lot of the Horde playerbase.

For this to ultimately work, blizzard would have to be willing to see the Alliance take some dark steps and for the players to respond well to accepting that identity. I am not sure I ever see that happening.

This, exactly this.

[Hardwire-velen (Hardwire)]

A pacifist believes violence is never the answer. Anduin wants peace, but the fact the Alliance is fighting at all means he’s no pacifist. You’re just salty Alliance isn’t the one starting trouble, because apparently pulling a Sylvanas and starting wars for the lolz is what a leader is supposed to be doing.

[Barrison-emerald-dream (Barrison)]

No, I’m just salty because Alliance has to keep losing cities and suffering the genocide of its entire races before they think war needs to happen in a game called World of Warcraft… and people wonder why the Alliance looks pathetic, reactionary and ineffectual.

[Pocketbuster-nagrand]

@Sevaira-thrall

Problem with the alliance exists in the conundrum of having a two faction game in which both sides do not want to be sith level of bad guys.

The Horde are never the Sith level bad guys. Especially in the Blizzard writers minds. Horde players were mad that Garrosh was being like super evil. Then the other leaders got together got help from the Alliance and ousted him. The Horde was never evil.

Same with BfA. You’ll find out in the end that the Horde were never really evil. Admittedly the writing is 10 yr old level but this is Blizzard we are dealing with here.

Alliance lacks any nuance like that at all. All the leaders may well as be one person since I don’t see them having any personality at all. Except maybe Genn because he smashed a lamp! They all seem like pacifist morons that should’ve been murdered by their own population for not taking the necessary steps to protect them.

They are a completely unrealistic suicidal faction I can’t imagine anyone wanting to follow unless they are just nostalgic for WC3/Vanilla Alliance.

[Frankenfiend-the-scryers]

No amount of rebranding is going to fix the Alliances image after fifteen years. You can go ahead and give up on that.

[Hardwire-velen (Hardwire)]

The wars that keep happening are usually with enemies like the Legion, and we do fine against them. It’s not the fault of the Alliance that the writers can’t think of anything to fill in between the big bad beyond “Horde will attack because EVIL!”

If you’re going to argue that starting a war right after the Burning Legion invaded was a good idea, then I’m sure Sylvanas has a place for you among her advisors.

[Barrison-emerald-dream (Barrison)]

Hey, it was George Patton who said something on the lines of: “After Berlin, we should just continue onto Moscow” in WW2. Might have saved us a 40 year cold war.

Like it or not, had the Alliance done something similiar, it would have been far more interesting storytelling than what actually happened.

[Elyssaria-kargath]

Shoot I’d be happy if they put in a council to wrest power from the High king… install council approved leaders for the Coalition forces, a chancellor/ prime minister equivalent…

Just anything to get us away from Anduin.

[Hardwire-velen (Hardwire)]

So, after we defeated the Legion we should have turned on the Horde rather than rebuild?

Yeah, I’m sure our troops and civilians wouldn’t mind starving or freezing to death when supplies ran out. Great plan, General!

[Barrison-emerald-dream (Barrison)]

No, instead, lets wait for the Horde to betray us and murder the entire Night Elf civilization. Glad we had your thinking to somehow keep us both bored and devistated at the same time.