Then that’s on them and maybe they should focus on the actual talent system that’s being released and not something we all made up ourselves. There was never any hint that they’d have class skins anyway. Very few classes would be able to have them to begin with, so it was never something Blizz had ever considered, only that we started because of Velf Paladins.
That’s true, That was my point that some players consider this class fantasy instead of a new player power system due to the names, that’s the only hint for those players. That’s why I mentioned Covenants because those were perceive as Hogtwars houses, players talking about X/Y narrative with the previews and demo before considering the actual implementation that locked your character into one.
If Blizzard called these new talents something like Legendary Talents…or another weird name, the focus about drama from the playerbase will be just the balance.
Which is why I said that no one seems to be reading what these talent points are.
Basically they’re promising to keep the balance close.
The problem is many players have no faith in them being able to deliver on it. They’ve had a terrible track record, but also in all fairness to the devs this patch and 10.1-10.1.5 have found pretty good balance.
I will wait and see but I can’t blame anyone for having no faith.
No.
This wasn’t the problem of Shadowlands. It had many problems, but the mere existence of additional/new abilities wasn’t a downside, in fact that’s a positive we kinda have always expected from each expansion since TBC.
So… to summarize: no, and your comparison doesn’t make any sense.
Hoping they would give some spontaneity to the talents or the one to enhance them 
Is a couple of bonuses and maybe some extra spell effects, lets not pretend is a whole spec overhaul that creates a sub class.
People that care so much about a name can stick to the one they like, most people will just pick the best for what they are doing.
2 Likes
The mental gymnastics some of these people do is wild, isn’t it?
1 Like
I got Slytherin, as expected lol.
Well I main Preservation and like the Green Dragonflight and it’s fantasy sooo… 
Like I really don’t care the fantasy of Chronowarden and Ruby Adept do not interest me and I’m just gonna take whichever one makes a Green Build more viable in all content cause you know Blizzard can’t even do the bare minimum for that in Dragonflight by giving at least Dream Flight a percentage buff outside of Raid Groups.
Fantastic part is we just went over this a few years ago, because covenants were SO popular they decided it’s time to give mixing fantasy and player power another shot 
.
How you people keep trying to equate Covenants to talent points is beyond me.
3 Likes
They want a strawman to be mad at. And when the talents go live, they’ll be the first ones here going “Oh this is the worst thing ever” even though the talents are likely going to be amazing AF.
Personally, I lost all interest in them after they shoehorned treants into Balance. I think they’re just talent points. I think some will be fun and others will be mediocre and it’s all going to be player opinion as to what they like or dislike.
If it were up to me, I’d just fix the current talent trees for those that need fixed and add all this new stuff to the bottom of the trees. But I guess this is their way of giving more options, instead of making them for one single spec, so I get that.
But the main point people seem to be missing that you and I get is that it’s just talent points. You can change 'em at any point. Names are completely irrelevant.
This is Blizzard we’re talking about. You might as well spin a roulette wheel. You could get a nice addition to your class. Or your class could become utterly unfun.
3 Likes
It’s mostly passives. These aren’t game-changing talents.
I play every class so…this really doesn’t apply to me. If I feel one character isn’t feeling good overall, I’ll move on till I find the one that does. Regardless, comparing them to whatever covenants were is 100% wrong, and you should feel bad for doing so.
Passives can be game changing. Even tier set is usually passive but it plays in such a way that it changes the talents you take and sometimes they do it just to “spice up the class” which can range from meh to horrible.
1 Like
Covenants were problematic because of how insanely restrictive they were. Like, to compare these Hero Talents to Covenants is fundamentally failing to acknowledge the reason why Covenants were a flop of cataclysmic proportions.
The fact that Hero Talents are freely swappable makes them distinctly incomparable to Covenants.
2 Likes
I’m pretty sure they have mentioned sometime during blizzcon that simply adding more talent points to the existing trees would cause issues, even if added more horizontal or vertical options.
This makes sense if you think about it. If they just added more options to the existing trees, now not only do they need to make these new options interesting to compete with your other choices, they also need to consider what happens if you ignore all the new talents and just index into your existing tree options further which currently they are designed to gatekeep at several levels in an attempt to retain balance and force you to spend points on less important and powerful things into to access other power things.
I can see already that some exiting talent trees have several options that are not that exciting or interesting yet they are locked behind gated areas that you would be forced to invest more points to access. Because of this, those areas are ignored and those points are spent elsewhere.
This issue would just become further exacerbated if you were granted more points with more options and if those options are not compelling enough, then it would throw the entire tree current balance structure out of whack and they would have to spend more time to update the existing trees to make them work with more points and additional talent options by doing balance changes and reshuffling the current talent trees around.
But they can instead save themselves all that trouble and a headache of a task in just adding a separate tree to dump your points into that they now can control in knowing you will have access to the entire tree and they can specialize the tree to work in a more self contained manner.
It actually becomes easier to balance because you will have every talent, instead of not picking up some and choosing others that have no synergy as you can do with the current talent trees.
So they avoid unnecessary extra work and can spend more time focusing on a narrow section of talents that they know you will have all of them by max level.
It’s an elegant solution vs adding on multiple balance breaking factors by just adding on to the existing trees.
In saying that, I am not saying that the current trees don’t need work, they should give them another pass and make changes as needed. But those changes won’t have any impact on what you will have access to with the hero trees and that’s the point. Keep them both separate to focus balance changes needed on specific tree.
Also, I’m sure these would be a lot less contentious if you had no choice in picking a path and were just forced to use what they made for each existing specialization.
But then if you don’t like the direction they came up with, you are left with no alternative choice.
I think this is why they went the route of each spec has access to 2 different paths and by connecting each path to another spec, they don’t have to create a hero talent section for each spec *2.
They just make it for each spec and then share it with another to give players a choice if they don’t like one, they may like the other. This also prevents potential dead hero talent trees as not just 1 spec is affected, but 2 specs are. So there is more incentive to make sure they have the work and dedication to being fully developed and realized since it affects most classes at a 66% of the time since 2/3 specs have access to it.
You don’t like keeper of the grove because of treants? Then perhaps Elune’s Chosen would be more your cup of tea so to speak.