No player should have any say in what happens to any character.
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… so you do actually see the issue …
Someone coming in… to “elevate” the race… to a more “accepted” (human/light-based) place…
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I think you’re trying to put words, and implications in my mouth.
That’s not what I said, I literally am quoted by you saying I don’t see this colonialism crap, and defiantly not the sexism.
If they’re a group called the Forsaken, then clearly they feel like they have been cast aside, and treated unfairly. Yet, when someone who I would consider to be just like them comes in, and agrees with what they’ve said, and starts to lead them down the path they’ve been conflating alongside the same one they’ve ran with committing war crimes, due to being Forsaken… Then I don’t even understand why people are unmoving, and as whiney about a character further developing part of their ‘identity’.
(Human/light-based) Well, at one point they were Human, arguably still- well, you can decide for yourself. But, I’m pretty confident Calia isn’t trying to cast the Undead into the Light, and joining former loved ones is a sentiment we see expressed throughout the game with the Forsaken in mind.
“Elevate” “accepted” where are these phrases used in game, or lore by Calia? Gosh, you’re painting a strange picture here of this character I’m fairly sure doesn’t even hold these beliefs. If I knew better it sounds like you’re holding her to this weird standard as if the character is being used against you on a personal level, which I’m fairly confident is not what’s going on with the story.
What part of the lore is stated colonialism? Or, is it something you’re looking for to tarnish this character before she has taken off?
Sylvanas comes across as unblemished in the story, and at a meta level when Jaina blowing the blight away at Lordaeron was seen as an act of god… Yknow. Because if Jaina hadn’t done that, Sylvanas wins the siege, kills swaths of her own people, unquestioned for her methods, and apparently retains the same justification she still has at this point in the narrative.
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I would have vastly preferred any kind of self-improvement come from within the faction instead, both because it would potentially lead to development from actual forsaken characters and also because I just don’t like Calia the “actually I chose to revive as a holy undead and The Light accommodated me” was just weird.
The whole counseling thing is also tremendously weird to me, because it gives off the implication that in the past 20 or so years of in-game time, an entire country of people apparently never considered talking about their problems before now.
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I agree, something coming from within the faction would have been probably more organic. But, at the same time, those characters are hardly there for that to even happen organically. To me.
I think the Undead are my least favorite race just due to the weird conflicting nature of their identity, but I still don’t think that keeps me from being able to appreciate their story. Which above all in my eyes was totally eclipsed at the expense of mascara tears, bikini armor, flying through the air, and 4D chess. Calia is as fine to me as other characters barely existing behind Sylvanas for the Forsaken. To me, she’s also a developing character, so idk the fawning.
It’s almost like the Forsaken are a conceptual mess.
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I think the Forsaken were just a complex concept I never had faith in being done well enough to what I’d like from them. Sylvanas especially was a character I thought might be standing next to an actual racial leader in Wow, she just wasn’t compelling a long time ago for me, and I think her total eclipse of what should have been a none, bikini, bone leader whowould have been just as cruel or w/e but with something worth paying attention to, or giving to her Undead people.
Half-serious. Kind of trying to be funny…
in the past 20 or so years of in-game time, an entire country of people apparently never considered talking about their problems before now.
I mean, weren’t they busy making as much blight as they could, and were far more concerned with a salted earth type of coping?
Sargeras still, N’zoth still. Yogg-saron still (no LK means no reason to go to Northrend really. That was the reason why Vashj and her naga went to help Illidan). Amongst other villains that are servants to those 3.
You didn’t really think this through did you? Like do you seriously think that no Lich King means Deathwing can’t do the cataclysm?
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It was a rhetorical question.
Sure it was…
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This is honestly the problem but nobody really wants to admit that to themselves lol
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Poster1: Blah, Blah, Blah, we are entitled.
Poster 2: No, Blah, Blah, Blah, we are the ones who are entitled.
Poster 1: You guys suck!
Poster 2: You guys suck!
Blizzard: Look how engaged they are! Goading them is working!
We need real writing, not cheap atrocities, or faction shaming, to make players mad.
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Nope. Just quoting you.
She’s an external entity, with no shared experiences, not even created the same, and little time among her “people” - and Blizzard will soon make her the racial leader. She’s basically a baby step away from her only connection to the Forsaken being she claims she self-identifies with them.
As I said, ideally, the next leader comes from a member of the Forsaken (I mentioned Voss, Velonara, Faranell, Belmont, and Tattersail). I don’t mind Calia joining and being involved in a lot of narratives, I think she could make for some very interesting stories, but any of the other choices is better for leading (Tattersail would be hilarious). Maybe in a couple of expansions Calia can become the leader after she’s cemented a role within the race.
As a hypothetical, imagine having Tyrande, Malfurion, Maiev, Shandris, … wow there are a lot of Night Elf heroes … well have all of their leadership die and decide that instead of taking a secondary hero and become the leader, let’s write a story where Ly’leth Lunastre leaves Suramar and becomes the new leader of the Night Elves. Or maybe Halduron Brightwing leaves Silvermoon?
Yes, they’re Elves and somewhat related, but it’s awkward, weird, and seems like forcing another group to lead them - even more so when it’s from a different faction, with a conflicting history, different experiences, and even different societies.
As I said, while I don’t like the choice of Calia to lead, I’m not clamoring for Sylvanas. I just think there’s more to offer with Calia not leading and with growth from within.
I think this goes hand in hand with the lack of development of any other heroes beyond Sylvanas, making it basically a cult of Sylvanas. It doesn’t help that Sylvanas’ writing basically from the end of Wrath onward has been a dumpster fire, but with her being a ridiculous mess, and the entire race tied to her, they’ve been a mess as well. Conceptually they were set up as an isolationist group, hunted by those who associated them with the Scourge, haunted by their time with the Scourge, and with their friends and family seeing them as monsters.
Unfortunately the writing has been a mixed bag of them often actually being monsters and other times them wondering why everyone hates them. It’s just a mess.
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Nope. Just quoting you.
No, you’re literally trying your hardest to claim I’m seeing colonialism.
I’m not going to bother responding to any of this you’ve regurgitated, because it’s like the same five points anytime someone brings up Calia.
The big takeaway from Calia to me is that she’s a character being introduce to the Forsaken, and is being wailed over because she isn’t good enough from conception. I don’t have to work hypotheticals or anything.
This isn’t that ridiculous
I don’t like the choice of Calia to lead
But, this is
… so you do actually see the issue …
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I don’t think you know what a rhetorical question is, but given the entirety of your post, I can tell you that wasn’t one.