Do you have a chat log of the time their message was sent and your reply for timestamps for all of your craft responses? Just a curious anecdote on how long it takes from their message being posted for you to message in the past since you claim you can do it i UNDER a second so it’d show the message getting to them at the same time second their message is posted. That’d have to be your average, consistent, which is what OP is mentioning.
Not really, the fact of the matter is not being charged doesn’t mean the crime wasn’t committed. You were both arguing that because action isn’t already taken on addons or the people that it means no rule break occurred, which is an awful stance to have.
I do, actually. I use Elephant (as an RPer, it’s pretty much required) so I have chat logs down to the second for every channel.
Their message in Trade Chat was at 18:18:47 on Wyrmrest Accord Trade.
My whisper response (doing everything manually, including typing out the full sentence) was sent at 18:18:51.
They sent it at 18:19:06
I summoned a portable station, completed it and responded at 18:19:30
They said thanks at 18:19:36
Saying I could get it in a second would be doable if I just had to right click, hit Ctrl+V and enter but as an Engineer, I’m not that prepared to encounter random crafting orders. People who do Blacksmithing/Jewelcrafting/Tailoring and focus more on crafting professions are likely to be more prepared than some guy idling around.
For the thing about add-ons breaking rules, ask yourself this: Blizzard allows things that add-ons do because of Blizzard literally gives them the functionality to do so. If an add-on was used for botting, it’d be like downloading a “Ban me” flag and it’d be fixed so that functionality would be removed. Then again, you’re the one claiming add-ons are botting software so I’m just going to chalk it up to you just don’t know what they do at all.
That doesn’t really do as I asked. I asked for you to post all of the logs where you were able to hit the person up as you claimed "
Which means the same second someone posts something, you whisper them.
Here’s another layer, the things we’re talking about will respond to you about the profession you mentioned and bring up which alt of theirs can make it. So, you’d have to have READ what the message was for which profession, register which alt of yours would be able to make it, and use THAT specific macro message at the very same second the message is sent.
So because the law technically in regards to access to roads exists, you say that if they didn’t want people to violate the rules of the road they would just remove everyones access to the roads? Do you think that would pose problems and therefore they do not, and just allow people to use the roads as normal without breaking the functionality for everyone to use the roads?
The fact they don’t break functionality for some addons, we don’t know why they don’t despite violating the rules. It could be because it would break too many other things they’d rather keep in the game, the same reason they don’t want to get rid of all addons just some in the future.
I already told you the time-stamps. I’m not going to go through and copy-paste logs that tell you the same thing that I already told you.
Also, I don’t need to read the full message. All I need to see is the item name and I know which profession makes it and Blizzard makes that easy when people link the item, if I put in trigger words in Listener, I could have it ping me with item names even when they aren’t linked. All you need to do when someone asks for a craft is to say “I can make that” or “I can make that on an alt.” You don’t need to jump through extra hoops and write a whole dissertation saying you can do their work order.
And for add-ons breaking the rules, you keep saying they break rules but clearly they aren’t because Blizzard can and have bricked add-ons that bended the rules before. Note, bended, not broken. If it was clearly something rule-breaking, it’d get actioned.
no matter how much people hold their breath and stomp their feet, they simply have to accept that in World of Warcraft, Blizzard makes the rules, and right now none of the addons mentioned in this debate are breaking rules. they’re all playing with the API created and supported by blizzard, using functions allowable within the game sandbox.
So you go, OP and people making such arguments - argue until you’re blue in the face. No one can stop you, but hopefully you realize how silly you’re being.
blizzard’s game, blizzard’s rules, blizzard’s definitions. If the rules change to disallow something, blizz will, as they have in the past, break that addon. But as long as the addons work within the confines of the API, they’re not breaking any rules.
You do if you want to respond to every message as these ones do for multiple professions. In fact I linked two items from two different professions and got two whispers from the same person in the same second, even. You can test this if you want to see what we’re actually talking about instead of claiming we just don’t understand some people are ‘fast’. lol.
Again, the ones I’m talking about came with a full message about their alt name, the profession and all. Same second I posted asking about it. You’re free to give it a try on the real high pop servers like OPs.
The ones we’re talking about, are.
“because police can shut down companies that break the law, any company currently running are not violating the law in any way.” yeah ok.
Then they should remove the rules they are not enforcing, that is your silly little argument. No reason to have a rule in there if you won’t enforce it.
You didn’t read my previous post then, I told you how fast I sent the manually typed message and that I could do it faster if I was prepared to.
And no, you do not need to read the full message to know what profession people are asking for. Either they are asking for the profession specifically or they are asking for a specific item. I can tell the difference between a gun, a cape, a belt made by leatherworker, tailor, or blacksmith, etc without needing to do mental gymnastics. You only need to see one thing, usually it’s purple and in brackets and bam, you know what they want. If you are a person with all the crafting professions, you don’t even need to think of which one it is for, you just need to be the first person to message them.
And your weird way of using analogies poorly is annoying. They are enforcing their rules, they aren’t enforcing your vision of what the rules are. News flash, your vision of what they are isn’t what they are.
You made the claim that you do such things in under a second, yet say you have nothing to support that you ever have.
and every time I say what I’ve experienced and I’m sure OP is referencing is people being instant - including with the layers of complexity of which alt for which profession, by name of the alt. Their messages generally are like this “My alt, X, has Profession you need. What do you need? Let me know if you send an order so I can log over. Tip what you think is fair.” I got TWO messages from that person same second with the TWO correct professions and their different alts.
You’re like the people that see someone say “Dang that person cut through the parking lot to avoid that turn.” and you go “Well when I go to that turn, I don’t do that. They didn’t violate a rule.” COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS, unrelated to what the person is talking about then randomly defending them out of the blue too?
I do wish you’d read my posts, since it’s clear you’re not and responding in a way I believe violates the forum rules I guess that’s that.
In about 1% of the cases, sure. 99% of the time, no. OP and me are talking about that.
Same can be said for you, next time don’t contradict yourself at every turn.
I claimed that I could if all I had to do was right click and click a button instead of right click and type out everything manually. If doing everything manually takes 4 seconds from a message being sent after seeing their request when I don’t even have WoW as my primary window because of your shenanigans, how fast do you think clicking one button would do it when I was prioritizing reading trade chat?
Even still, macros/add-ons to respond to chat haven’t been determined to be botting even by Blizzard’s standards. Oh no, DBM auto-responded to someone who whispered me during a boss fight, OOH NO IT’S BOTTING!?
Please. Your tin-foil is on too tight. If you think the guy answering you when you ask for a crafter is a bot, report it. It won’t do anything because they are innocent. Just because you think they are a bot doesn’t make them a bot and if you want to go by legal standards, if you accuse someone of a crime but can’t prove it even when all evidence is recorded, then clearly they didn’t commit the crime. It isn’t a matter of “Oh, the system is flawed and it’s a loophole because of criminals walking free from a lack of evidence!” because WoW has all the evidence, when all the evidence is there and the evidence says they didn’t do it, then they didn’t do it.
I don’t know, check your logs you claim you keep and prove it under the parameters I gave.
It’s automated, which is what Blizzard defines under that category. So technically. Even companies like Jagex put auto-typers under botting. So it’s just Blizzard not enforcing the rule, again.
Maybe yours is? It’s not tin-foil when what I claimed is truth. In fact the real conspiracy is you trying to gaslight people that it doesn’t exist. You’re like the ones that claim win-trading doesn’t exist even when people make videos proving it.
See? You’re out here in the trenches defending people you don’t even know for instant responding with multiple alt names with the right professions.
Clearly it doesn’t, otherwise all the bots would be banned. You didn’t think that one through, did you?
Also Blizzard was the one that said if things don’t get reported enough it doesn’t even bubble up enough in the queue to generate a ticket for investigation.
Bots do get banned though. Are you on a trip of “THEY DON’T GET BANNED INSTANTLY, IT DOESN’T WORK!” or something?
Not so much ‘defending’ but reminding that just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean they are breaking rules. Delusion and vigilantism usually don’t go well together. If they are actually botting, then send 'em to the ban pile but making up your own interpretation to claim someone is botting when they aren’t is just silly.
Also, comparing Runescape to WoW? Huh. You really hit a low because Jagex doesn’t look like Blizzard to me, why are you trying to say Jagex rules are Blizzard’s rules?
Plus you’d have to cite that blue post because it feels like you’re taking things out of context because people get reported/actioned for whispers when only one person can actually report that person due to the nature of whispers.
You’re free to provide evidence that 100% of bots get banned in each ban wave.
Or the fact they don’t even get banned in a full quarter, or in the same season they used one.
I didn’t, as
Akston said…
I made a comparison, I said both companies, by definition it’s against their rules. Both. Not that they’re the same company or ones rules is the other, both define automation as botting.
Only if that person only sent one message, ever, would that generate one report. Try to read the post and try again.
You’re the one making up your own interpretation COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than what people are talking about to claim someone is NOT botting which is pretty wild
100% detection is impossible, if it was possible cyber security would be a done and solved case. However, accusing something of botting when it existed in the game unchanged for YEARS should be evidence enough that what you’re calling botting isn’t botting by Blizzard’s book.
Jagex defined auto-typers as against the rules. Blizzard made no such definition of using macros or add-ons to send message as botting, even as automated responses. You’re using ‘automation’ and throwing everything under the bus of “If a human didn’t type every letter it is a bot” which isn’t what the Blizzard rules defined botting as. They did define excessive use of chat macros as spam, however, which is reportable for a different reason.
Your claim was they do get banned, whereas OP and me claim not nearly enough are.
That seems to imply that you think all are getting banned because you’re sitting here saying there’s no way none of these things could be, or are being botted. That’s your problem.
So because bots have been around since the start of the game, it’s not botting? Makes no sense.
They mention automation, which means if something is doing it for them… Like an addon, without a button press, that would be automation. A macro, requires you to press it for every time you use it. An addon does not have that limitation.
Actually, I stated that it was automation, which falls under the category of botting even by blizzards rules.
They also say excessive is completely up to the server to determine, so even a post per hour could technically be spam. By your logic anyone that sends a message more than once a day could violate that. Oddly, they’re not all actioned. I guess that means no one in the game can spam. (Even though there’s an in game spam prevention system for chat channels, btw)
The add-on that sends out guild invites has been around for YEARS. Blizzard didn’t shut it down and clearly if it was botting they would have by now, in fact, they pretty much allow it and made an in-game option to turn off guild invites because of people being annoyed with random guild invites from strangers but the guild invites technically weren’t determined to be breaking any rules.
They mention automation, then they go on to clarify one button press = one action. If you would like to make your case that they are botting, you’d have to point out where they aren’t pushing any buttons. If they only push one button and it sends a specific message to someone who mentioned a certain thing, then technically it is not automation by Blizzard’s rules on botting.
Proving Blizzard doesn’t like to enforce their rules, yes.
So things like automation in related to multiboxxing is allowed, too? Good to know.
Technically they fall under both spam (as you mentioned) as well as automation, good try.
Sure, it’s mentioned in the OP.
Which is what these discussions are about, if you had read the posts.
You’re the one that’s going to have to prove that you can send two messages to the same person in the same second for two different professions the same second they mention it in chat, because you’re the one making the claim it’s not automated or botting in any way to do so.
Please share where Blizzard says they are endorsing any addon.
Correct. And if you did it now, you would be banned. It was allowed, now it’s not.
Why are all of you assuming that these are addons that are allowed? Where is that assumption coming from? There are unlisted addons. There are addons that are not approved.