I benched my Ele Shaman. Once a week I get on to pug uldir as resto. Sometimes I do my M+ key but then get reminded of how subpar we are and log off again. Tbh every time I log on to play as ele I get very angry and resentful of blizzard and want to quit all together. If I had not joined such a great guild socially at the beginning of BFA I would have quit all together.
10/12/2018 11:24 AMPosted by Xruptor10/12/2018 08:51 AMPosted by BlavodRealmPop shows that Shaman are currently 7.2% of the overall population on North American servers. Monks are penultimate at 6.4%. Demon Hunters are dead last at 4.7%.
Overall representation across classes is pretty evenly distributed between 7-10%. Monk and Demon Hunter fall below that at the low end. Hunter is the exception on the high end at 11.4%.
For you statistics nerds:
- Mean class percentage: 8.34166667
- Standard deviation: 1.72281922
At 120 Monk is the lowest at 6.2% with Shaman above it at 6.2%. Paladin is highest at 12.2%.
Even with those low percentages Shaman is only .12% outside of the Standard Deviation:
- Mean class percentage: 8.291666667
- Standard deviation: 1.973210735
So the math says that Shaman are slightly on the low side, but on average about as well represented as every other class.
Mileage on your specifc realm or region may vary. =)
That was actually a well thought out and informative post. Thanks! I do agree that it could vary from server or region.
The only thing sadly that I think RealmPop doesn't take into account is active vs inactive accounts. I believe only Blizzard can truly know the actual numbers. But RealmPop does a pretty good job giving an overall view.
Thanks! One nice thing about RealmPop is that you can set the level range. Setting it to 110-120 should give you a pretty good idea of what's actually going on this expansion (not counting lower level allied race characters still being leveled up for heritage armor). Setting it exclusively to 120 is a pretty good look at what's going on at the end-game level.
You are probably right about Blizzard only having access to the true numbers. I don't know if there is a flag in the API for inactive accounts. As I recall they occasionally purge them if there is no active subscription, and they also have moved from physical servers to virtual servers to more easily manage the aging player base.
But surveying the high levels still gives us some pretty interesting data to pour over. =)
Im sure im in the mass minority for this, but I actually made a shaman and boosted it to 110 and im having a blast! Im a tad worried that ill get basically no invites come mythic pluses, but hes also an alt so its not a huge deal breaker I suppose.
Its hard to complain about shooting lightning at lots of people, and the talent that buffs your next two lightning spells is super cool. Makes me feel like a thunder god or something.
Its hard to complain about shooting lightning at lots of people, and the talent that buffs your next two lightning spells is super cool. Makes me feel like a thunder god or something.
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10/14/2018 07:02 AMPosted by AryysIm sure im in the mass minority for this, but I actually made a shaman and boosted it to 110 and im having a blast! Im a tad worried that ill get basically no invites come mythic pluses, but hes also an alt so its not a huge deal breaker I suppose.
Its hard to complain about shooting lightning at lots of people, and the talent that buffs your next two lightning spells is super cool. Makes me feel like a thunder god or something.
I'm glad you are having fun with the class. More shamans is a good thing. You may or may not experience issues with Mythics but that's subject to opinion and server honestly. I been seeing a minor influx of shamans as of late but I believe this is folks just leveling alts.
The issue with this class over the years, to me this class is a patch class. One patch we are over powered, another, we are under powered. The class seems to never be in a good spot for long, or it is left behind .
The class is never consistent, it's always inconsistent.
The class is never consistent, it's always inconsistent.
10/26/2018 06:29 AMPosted by TerroraThe issue with this class over the years, to me this class is a patch class. One patch we are over powered, another, we are under powered. The class seems to never be in a good spot for long, or it is left behind .
The class is never consistent, it's always inconsistent.
Noticed that too. I think the one thing we don't really have is advocates for us. Ion is a Shaman, but it doesn't really seem to help. Some classes seem to get big buffs or light nerfs, we seem to get light buffs and big nerfs.
I also think Blizzard secretly thinks we're fine, because of our utility. While it may be great, it doesn't translate to high keys, raid participation, or RBG's. It does in Arena, but thats about it.
I recently got my wife into the game, mostly dungeon leveled, and we didn't see one until like 116 in a dungeon. She was like "what's the blue class? I haven't seen one of these yet."
That really hit me hard.
That really hit me hard.
2 Likes
Sometimes a key dev playing your class can actually be a burden because then the perception of the class's performance and gameplay gets jaded by a single individual and their opinion.10/26/2018 10:11 AMPosted by Roffleshocks10/26/2018 06:29 AMPosted by TerroraThe issue with this class over the years, to me this class is a patch class. One patch we are over powered, another, we are under powered. The class seems to never be in a good spot for long, or it is left behind .
The class is never consistent, it's always inconsistent.
Noticed that too. I think the one thing we don't really have is advocates for us. Ion is a Shaman, but it doesn't really seem to help. Some classes seem to get big buffs or light nerfs, we seem to get light buffs and big nerfs.
I also think Blizzard secretly thinks we're fine, because of our utility. While it may be great, it doesn't translate to high keys, raid participation, or RBG's. It does in Arena, but thats about it.
Brewmasters dealt with that with Celestalon, as did Hunters with Celestalon back in WoD.
The worst thing that can happen to your class is a lead developer mains your class. You need to understand developers that play this game are not at all interested in marginal DPS gains that add up to severe viability problems for endgame core raiders.
Developers, when they play, typically play in insular, core groups that run content exclusively together. Often below Mythic difficulty, although I believe Ion runs Mythic raids. This means they are isolated from the classism and toxicity that many players deal with when playing underperforming specs. Developers are far more interested in their own unique brand of gameplay mechanics they find enjoyable.
Case in point: the (in)famous Ghostcrawler. For years it was a large point of speculation what he played due to the apparent favoritism some specs got over others. Then when he quit we finally found out: a Holy priest. The abhorrent, clunky and awful chakra system no one asked for and the entire community petitioned years to remove was kept firmly in place for multiple expansions because the Project Lead enjoyed it. Unless Ion rerolls, expect Shaman to have significant mechanical issues.
Developers, when they play, typically play in insular, core groups that run content exclusively together. Often below Mythic difficulty, although I believe Ion runs Mythic raids. This means they are isolated from the classism and toxicity that many players deal with when playing underperforming specs. Developers are far more interested in their own unique brand of gameplay mechanics they find enjoyable.
Case in point: the (in)famous Ghostcrawler. For years it was a large point of speculation what he played due to the apparent favoritism some specs got over others. Then when he quit we finally found out: a Holy priest. The abhorrent, clunky and awful chakra system no one asked for and the entire community petitioned years to remove was kept firmly in place for multiple expansions because the Project Lead enjoyed it. Unless Ion rerolls, expect Shaman to have significant mechanical issues.
i rerolled huntard because 8.1 is not a fix so the shaman is shelved for the rest of the xpac.
Ion is not a class designer currently, he was a class designer years ago. Ghostcrawler also was never in Ion's position as game director, it's not quite an apples to apples comparison.
The problems with shaman go lower than him, and while I disagree with his thoughts regarding resto, his personal beliefs likely have little impact on what we're seeing. He has bigger fish to fry after all in managing everything, not micromanaging one class.
If you want to get out the pitchforks, you're going to need to go after the class design team or at least the lead for them, not Ion :P.
The problems with shaman go lower than him, and while I disagree with his thoughts regarding resto, his personal beliefs likely have little impact on what we're seeing. He has bigger fish to fry after all in managing everything, not micromanaging one class.
If you want to get out the pitchforks, you're going to need to go after the class design team or at least the lead for them, not Ion :P.
@Twisp
Just about everything you said was factually false. Ion was an encounter designer years ago, he was never a class designer. He went directly from encounter designer to assistant game director to game director. That's not to say he isn't deeply involved in class balance decisions... you know founding the most influential class theorycrafting website for most of the game's history Elitist Jerks. Ghostcrawler was lead systems designer, of which combat systems (i.e. class balance) were his department.
You seem to be under the impression that game development meetings, specifically class balance meetings, are not attended by the systems lead or game directors. So your belief is that the top tier directors of the game have no input and no participation in decisions that affect the largest portions of players. In fact, it was well known and publicized that Ghostcrawler had the final say in numerous class balancing decisions and he directly commented on these decisions repeatedly. His in-game avatar literally has an ability called "nerf-bat" acknowledging this fact.
Celestalon and Holinka shared his jobs when Ghostcrawler left and when they left, their replacements are not engaged with the community in any measurable way. That's why people wave their pitchforks at Ion. Because their replacements are notoriously unapproachable and disinterested in feedback and it all gets filtered to them through community managers and Ion's community interaction experiences.
Just about everything you said was factually false. Ion was an encounter designer years ago, he was never a class designer. He went directly from encounter designer to assistant game director to game director. That's not to say he isn't deeply involved in class balance decisions... you know founding the most influential class theorycrafting website for most of the game's history Elitist Jerks. Ghostcrawler was lead systems designer, of which combat systems (i.e. class balance) were his department.
You seem to be under the impression that game development meetings, specifically class balance meetings, are not attended by the systems lead or game directors. So your belief is that the top tier directors of the game have no input and no participation in decisions that affect the largest portions of players. In fact, it was well known and publicized that Ghostcrawler had the final say in numerous class balancing decisions and he directly commented on these decisions repeatedly. His in-game avatar literally has an ability called "nerf-bat" acknowledging this fact.
Celestalon and Holinka shared his jobs when Ghostcrawler left and when they left, their replacements are not engaged with the community in any measurable way. That's why people wave their pitchforks at Ion. Because their replacements are notoriously unapproachable and disinterested in feedback and it all gets filtered to them through community managers and Ion's community interaction experiences.
10/14/2018 07:02 AMPosted by AryysIm sure im in the mass minority for this, but I actually made a shaman and boosted it to 110 and im having a blast! Im a tad worried that ill get basically no invites come mythic pluses, but hes also an alt so its not a huge deal breaker I suppose.
Its hard to complain about shooting lightning at lots of people, and the talent that buffs your next two lightning spells is super cool. Makes me feel like a thunder god or something.
The class feels great until M+ content and you realize that outside of the rare 4+ mob pulls that the class really lags behind what others bring.
I like how you call me factually false but still continue to not get things right...
In his own words, he said he was a class designer, I would trust that he knows what positions he's had at Blizzard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2noXN5iagI Encounter design was his first position at 39:00, with Cataclysm he moved to class design (43:00). Starts talking about moving into lead encounter design at 48:00 with MoP.
And yes, he would be attending meetings, maybe not all of them, but he's still not involved in the nitty gritty of class design. You seem to be under the impression that because he plays a shaman, he's directly getting in there and controlling the class at the same level as say...Adam Kugler who is the actual lead for the team (and is a name I don't even have a forum avatar for off the top of my head).
I have to restate that the Director and Lead are going to be doing different things when it comes to their respective roles. What Ghostcrawler did then still doesn't map to what Ion is doing now and even still, that's relying on what was done almost 10 years ago has gone completely unchanged if he were.
I understand why a notable face like Ion gets the pitchforks over !@#$ like this, still doesn't change the fact that it's mostly misguided, which is what I was getting at.
That said, we can at least agree that the amount and type of engagement these days is less than stellar.
In his own words, he said he was a class designer, I would trust that he knows what positions he's had at Blizzard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2noXN5iagI Encounter design was his first position at 39:00, with Cataclysm he moved to class design (43:00). Starts talking about moving into lead encounter design at 48:00 with MoP.
And yes, he would be attending meetings, maybe not all of them, but he's still not involved in the nitty gritty of class design. You seem to be under the impression that because he plays a shaman, he's directly getting in there and controlling the class at the same level as say...Adam Kugler who is the actual lead for the team (and is a name I don't even have a forum avatar for off the top of my head).
I have to restate that the Director and Lead are going to be doing different things when it comes to their respective roles. What Ghostcrawler did then still doesn't map to what Ion is doing now and even still, that's relying on what was done almost 10 years ago has gone completely unchanged if he were.
I understand why a notable face like Ion gets the pitchforks over !@#$ like this, still doesn't change the fact that it's mostly misguided, which is what I was getting at.
That said, we can at least agree that the amount and type of engagement these days is less than stellar.
10/29/2018 10:49 AMPosted by TwispI like how you call me factually false but still continue to not get things right...
In his own words, he said he was a class designer, I would trust that he knows what positions he's had at Blizzard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2noXN5iagI Encounter design was his first position at 39:00, with Cataclysm he moved to class design (43:00). Starts talking about moving into lead encounter design at 48:00 with MoP.
I'll stand corrected on this point, I don't have time to watch to video to confirm, but Ion's tenure as a class designer isn't mentioned in his wikipedia, wowpedia, or wowwiki pages. All omit that segment of his positions at Blizzard. Sort of irrelevant though, since it reinforces my position that he's more directly involved, experienced and a part of class balancing decisions, not less.
And yeah, it's still absurd and asinine that one of the most significant factors in player retention, class design, is something you feel they're mostly uninvolved with. That's still not just wrong, it's fractally wrong.
We will see how things go with 8.1. But I'm not expecting a huge leap in Shaman population. The damage has been done and I don't think anything can fix it at this point.
Yep, I am the newest Shaman to leave WoW completely. My shammy should be so powerful but with each piece of gear I get , it feels weaker. Lightening is a filler and useless. May as well just stand there . Some WQ I cant even get a hit in before the enemy is killed by someone else. Nope I am done, WoW wants to screw with my character more than they want to develop interesting content, have at it, I am so completely done.
I have to add, I put alot of time and money into building my Shaman into something I was proud of and enjoyed playing, as I am sure we all did, maybe WoW is trying to kill us off altogether? In my case they succeeded
I switched from my shaman who I have mained since Vanilla to this mage. The current incarnation is just not fun at all to me. I couldnt even say what they need to do to fix it - it feels like its more than a new talent or two and increasing damage. I still try to keep up with him a little so he has some gear in the event that they somehow make shamans decent again. However, every time I play I get bored and/or frustrated with him pretty quick.
10/29/2018 03:53 PMPosted by EsdaYep, I am the newest Shaman to leave WoW completely. My shammy should be so powerful but with each piece of gear I get , it feels weaker. Lightening is a filler and useless. May as well just stand there . Some WQ I cant even get a hit in before the enemy is killed by someone else. Nope I am done, WoW wants to screw with my character more than they want to develop interesting content, have at it, I am so completely done.
Bye