Shadow's rising continues the attitudes of BfA

I had unsubscribed over the BfA Storyline. Even now, I’m Alliance because I don’t want to be a villain in my own story. So it was with both interest and trepidation that I listened to Shadows Rising. Conclusion, nothing has really changed.

Jaina is now a friend of the Horde (the dead shopkeepers in Dalaran being of no note). Even when Jaina thinks about that time, it is all about her feeling her “attitudes” were wong (though apparently she has no actions of consequence to take note of). The only exception the Horde loving Jaina in return is Talanj, and that is only because of personal grudges (which are opposed by the rest of the Horde, since nobody else has any reason to have issues to Jaina).

Meanwhile the Horde leaders who were not even with the Horde during Teldrassil feel the need to have personal shame for what happened (and, by extension, so should Horde players).

The message was that action pride is a myth and the Horde players are suppose to feel shame. At the same time, the “Alliance has never done anything wrong” is alive and well. If you couldn’t take the shaming of the Horde in BfA, Blizzard clearly has changed how they see the Horde.

To be fair, Madeleine writes a decent story and she gives fair treatment to characters as she writes them, so it was OK to listen to. But the story arc (presumably Blizzard’s decision) is telling.


Well we did get to see Bwonsamdi’s Motives which is nice, hes actually a good guy.


Yeah. I game short shrift to that point but the book was OK. I was just clear that Blizzard is still shaming the Horde.

These are both 100% true statements.

The horde follows Thrall because he is the founder. Thrall has a good relationship with Jaina because of Thralls upbringing and how he is different from other orcs.

So yes the horde will have a favored relationship with Jaina because she’s BFFs with the founder.


This is not true. In the very same book Jaina has issues with Turalyon and Alleria torturing unarmed horde in the name of the Alliance, pretty much saying what they are doing is WRONG.


True and very surprising coming from the women who wanted to drown all of orgrimmar due to the actions of one orc.

Jaina is wrong.

Eh wouldn’t say he’s a good guy, after all he makes “deals” for his favors as seen in the rakhastan fight. A good guy would help out of kindness for nothing in return, he helps out of greedy motives to get something back in return. I put him in “neutral” morale.

Personally the book was just meh. Most of it was fluff that added nothing to the main srory. Nothing was resolved. Characters acted opposite their normal selves. And there wasn’t a single scene that really hit me in the heart strings.

I listened to the audio book. Well the narrator did ok. She didn’t make convincing voices for most of the msle characters.

I give the book a 4 outa 10.

Now compared to before the storm or tides of war. The new book has nothing. Other narrators did a better job. The stories where complete and punchy. There was resolutions. And when it wanted to rip out your heart and make you cry the previous books did just that.

I enjoyed them far more.

To be fair the scene you are referring to could have gone smoothly without torture had the horde refugees just coroperated.

The alliance and horde refuse to share info despite both wanting sylvie dead. So it makes no sense the refugees refused to just answer questions.

Turulyon tries to get them to talk peacefully and they waste his time. Even though they get food, water, and supplies they desperately need from the alliance.

Alleria is forced to take extreme measures. And had she not then sylvies plot to kill bwansamdi would have worked. And talanji and her people would have died.

It was only because the alliance shared their info they gathered. That plots where goiled and talanji lives.

Alleria also tortured a human smuggler to. So it wasn’t just one sided.

There was so many things in the book that made no sense.

Now we can only hope they allow us to bring the one who ordered the genocide to justice. I fear that they’re going to try to redeem her though.

It wasn’t just the one action. Theramore was the final straw but jaina has spent her entire life failing, losing, and being backstabbed. She just finally had enough.


I have to say, even if the book didn’t also keep giving reasons why it was wrong, and even if I wasn’t referring the to meme that the Alliance has never done anything to the Horde worth apologizing for, it was a drop in the bucket compared to what Jaina has skipped away from.

Not interested in the Jaina debate. You may or may not care how many Horde players don’t agree with “Jaina did nothing wrong”. The point here is that Blizzard has decided to Alliance spin a reality while shaming the Horde. The message to those who might want play Horde is pretty clear.

Jaina has gone through more bs because of the horde then she has done to them. She’s not a friend atm. Specific people she’ll help but the horde as a whole she’s not the nuetral figure anymore.

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Horde are generally the bad guys or the darker shade of gray. Like it or not.

We shouldn’t be glorifying actions of the orcish horde or gary or sylvie at all. As with any universe individuals can be good or evil.

Turalyon and Alleria torturing a civilian mother in front of her two young children, and later a father in front of his wife and son, isn’t exactly Alliance always being the good guys. Which frankly, I wouldn’t mind seeing more of. It would be nice to see more flavor and balance with behavior within the Alliance other than the need to always be portrayed as the good guys. So while I was like ??? when Turalyon assisted in the torture, it was a nice change of pace.

Page 105: “It was compassion and not torture that produced the final warning. Perhaps the man might have told them all he knew willingly if only a bit more patience had been utilized.”

It makes sense to me. The refugees are refugees for a reason. It only makes sense they’d be reluctant to tell the opposite faction anything.

I was just pointing out how under the name of the Alliance they are doing something wrong, not that it’s one sided or anything.

In BfA I rejected official lore and substituted my own headcanon.

Judging by this post, apparently in SL I will be doing the same.

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I’m pretty certain Blackhand was the founder of the Horde, not Thrall. I don’t care how many spin-offs the Horde has had. The Horde was founded by Blackhand, Thrall chose to still use the name, so he continued the legacy of Blackhand albeit he took it down a different path that has come full circle back to Blackhand Horde, twice now? once with Garrosh and the other with Sylvanas, so Sadfang said if memory serves.